Offense pre-SORNA? Pennsylvania is a good option for you.
The Liberty Bell, also known as the Pennsylvania State House bell, is one of history’s most famous symbols of freedom and justice. This month, freedom and justice were restored for Pre-SORNA registrants nationwide, when the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that registration requirements cannot be applied retroactively not only to people whose offense occurred in Pennsylvania (as had previously been determined in Commonwealth v. Muniz), but cannot be applied retroactively against people whose offense occurred anywhere and moved to Pennsylvania.
A footnote to the case spells it out perfectly, “What is at the heart of this case is the question of whether Muniz applies equally to Santana. As outlined above, on all material aspects, the cases are the same. Both Santana and Muniz committed their offenses before SORNA was enacted. Both had SORNA applied retroactively years after the commission of those offenses. Both were subjected to the same exact requirements under SORNA. The only difference between the two is that Santana committed his triggering offense in New York, while Muniz committed his here... There is no constitutionally justifiable basis to hold that a scheme is unconstitutional for Pennsylvanians, but that exact scheme, applied the exact same way, is constitutional as to New Yorkers.”
You can read the full opinion below:
I wonder what all of this means when the new regulations kick in. Will non- compliant states become compliant, continue what they are doing, or pull a Florida? Even though this decision is great news I wouldn’t start looking for property in Pennsylvania right now. Just wish the pendulum would swing knocking SORNA into a trash compactor!!
Wonder how the general public is going to handle this. Hope no politicians are seeking reelection or election
in the near future. I can hear them already. {Thousands of sex offenders are going to flock here if we do not change this most dangerous decision/ruling.} Rise up people and protest this Judge’s decision the future of our children is at stake. Sound far-fetched? Not to me.
In the ruling, dissenting Justice Mundy and the Commonwealth have already posited that scenario (see [J-66-2021] – 18), so be sure the politicians will also. Of course, they will almost certainly fail to mention that the most likely result will not be any increase in sexual based crime. Why? Because one of the best in the field of researching recidivism risk, Dr. Karl Hanson, has modeled risk on over 7000 individuals and found that even those with an above average risk of reoffending fall below the desistence threshold within 15 years of being offense-free in the community (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TtY6WyJNZM&t=2s timestamp 38:59). Those with an average risk or lower are already below the desistence threshold if they would qualify for registry relief due to their offense being pre-2012 SORNA.
The numbers don’t lie, politicians do.
I happen to live in VA and have been here since the late 80’s. Orignally from WVA. We all offend in many ways or does not the bible say Judge not or you will be judged. Who runs a racei n a stot car challangejust to see the finish line? Yes law and government are good as long as they go overboard.
Most all of this registry should be abolished even with the many ways the government uses to deceit another in a sort of confident game. Most of this registry is taking advantage of another with these attempts to meet up with a teen via a computer while the main focus is sex based. That is a bit basin in and of itself.
Back in the 60’s I was in jail with the brother of my sisters girl friend in JR. High. He was in jail for dope and I was a weekend warrior. Here they were protecting me and now with this sex registry they are in many cases protecting a fictitious gal in all this sexual situation via the internet.
Yes you can bet your sweet potatoes I wanted to go to court. Even the person that arrested me knew that so he gives me a plea option sitting across from his desk. Yes its all a ruse in much of this sorted ordeal. So what is fair today when one usurps their position?
Don’t move to Pennsylvania quite yet. Let this play out and see what the commonwealth does. We don’t know what the future holds except CJ Roberts needs new tighty whities and to have better flow down below. Time for the registry and this shit show to be abolished!!
Brandon
Well said. My elderly parents are here so I have to stay anyway as they were there for me when I was in prison. I owe them that. At least I know what to expect here. And with all these positive rulings, something has to give.
Although if I got off the registry, I might move to another area of town where people don’t know my past. NOT because I have to hide something, but want to stop worrying about broken windows, slit tires, dookie on the doorstep etc.
AND I can get away from nextdoor “Karens” LOL
CherokeeJack
I don’t believe running out of state solves anything unless it’s for the right reasons and one has to make that decision. I’m glad you are with your parents talking and being there for them in their time of need, just like they were for you. Having dog crap in a pillow case on Halloween makes you a target. As Britney Spears sang, “ CherokeeJack Your aren’t that innocent.”
I dare them to take it to SCOTUS. I’d wager they’ll burn the whole thing down!
The Pennsylvania Supremes were quite clever in all of these rulings. They went out of their way in Muniz to state that their ruling was premised on provisions of the Pennsylvania state constitution, including the right to reputation, which are not included in the United States Constitution, thus essentially circumventing any future U.S. Supreme Court reversal. They basically said that people in Pennsylvania have greater rights under their state constitution than we do under the U.S. Constitution, which is apparently true given the outcome.
RM
I believe Maryland’s Constitution gives residents more rights than the United States Constitution. My hope is more judges of the state’s supreme courts rule favoring registrants and used to bring the registry in the dumpster fire.
My “offense” is alleged to have occurred before Sep. 1995, so I should be allowed to live in Penn. (or Maryland, for that matter), due to Supreme Court decisions. I wonder how likely it is that future justices, say 3, 5, or 10 years from now, might just change things back. After all, civil “penalties” can be reinstated pretty easily – and I guess two of the Penn justices didn’t completely agree about this issue. I know … glass half-empty guy.
I meant to say that, because Penn’s original, very first Megan’s law was effective starting Oct. 24, 1995, I should be able to live there without registering.
Rayo
BUT, don’t you just want to hug the judges who actually sided with us on the fact we ARE being punished “After we were already sentenced”?
It is such a “Breath of fresh air” to see a REALLY honest judge who follows the law, not based on emotion of what we may or may not have done.
@Cherokee – over the last quarter century, I’ve slowly lost the impulse to hug anyone, unless maybe it’s a very selective, rabid, Kodiak bear-type hug.
RAY-O
AWESOME!
So True!….Mine has been the last 12.5 years, so you got me Beat!
Give a Big Virtual Hug to CherokeeJ, for Me!..Ha!..You Get One too!
Happy New Year!
To:
TruthandScience
I think you broke one of my ribs, that hug was too much love for this old guy :)~
Right back at cha!
** Hope and pray 2022 brings us all a breath of fresh air and some good news for our situations. Like they tell Ex military in the support groups, “We got your back”.
This is really a big deal. It gives me (and anyone else charged pre-2012) a place to go where I wouldn’t have to register. At all.
I think lots of people commenting haven’t read the opinion, or should reread it. It’s a big, big deal. I’m not sure with family here in Fl If I’ll move there right away, but having options is an incredibly liberating feeling. Incredible day for justice.
It seems to me that although you might have no need to register in that state as per their specific law that you would still be required to register because you are required to register in Florida FOR LIFE.
I am wrong about that? Would be nice…
I’m not a lawyer, but I believe this very case makes it so if one moved to PA from Florida and the case was pre-sorna you’re obligation to register would fall under their old rules. (Which most were 10 year registrations). The court specifically said it’s the time of the conviction that matters not the location. Now Florida will still list you, but maybe that will change someday. But Im not an expert at all so……
JC
You said:
“Im not an expert at all so……”
Do NOT feel bad. I have spoken to at least 7 different lawyers about registry situations and, believe it or not, I got 7 different answers. One will tell me they could get me off the registry for “X” amount of money (But if I lost there was NO refund)
Another told me I am NEVER getting off the registry so not to waste his time. And the remainder were optimistic but said it was too early to try.
That is what I LOVE about personal injury lawyers. “No recovery, no fee” HAHA. Maybe I should hire one of them as my registry lawyer because it is causing me mental, emotional and physical illness being on the registry.
SOT
Being on the Florida registry while not living there boggles my mind and I never wanted the sea levels to rise more making the d*ck of the country the next Atlantis.
JC, and anyone else who understands, please help me grasp this. I was “charged” and convicted by the feds in 2009 for an offense that they said occurred in 2007. So I can now leave Florida and move to Pennsylvania wihtout having to be registered there according to their Supreme court?
Possibly. I would speak to an attorney. I don’t know how the fed situation will work, except that if the state you live in doesn’t give you an option to register, the feds won’t charge you.
I wouldn’t count on the hope that the feds won’t charge a person. I’ve heard that the new regulations offer a safety valve in the form of an “impossibility defense.” A person might ultimately win, but being arrested and spending pre-trial time is a distinct possibility. They will need to have a test case(s) for the new regulations, and might even see a benefit in intimidating everybody else. This is known as a “Russian warning shot.” They shoot the guy next to you to warn you.
Veritas.
ED C
HAHA a “Russian Warning shot”.
That sounds like what the Mafia use to do. If someone wouldn’t talk and tell them the truth or what they wanted to know, they would kidnap your family to get you to cooperate. AND, sometimes even if you cooperated, afterwards, tell you “Sorry, no witnesses, you know too much”.
Confused
I wouldn’t be moving anytime soon as the new regulations are rolled out to see how states react. The grass maybe greener in Pennsylvania now, however the legislators could enact a worse law. I’d reach out to the Pennsylvania Advocacy group and ask them for guidance as well as a respectable Pennsylvania attorney. Even if you move to Pennsylvania you’ll still be on the Florida registry.
… Until you factor in the Federal requirement to register (SORA). I’m fairly certain I’m not mistaken in that beginning January 6(?) of 2022 all States are required to adhere to updated Federal standards regarding SORA. For current Florida residents this is little different from what you are currently required to do while not being officially supervised.
Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Not quite right, Sc. I don’t believe states are now or will be required to adhere to federal standards. Under the new federal rules, it is the registrant who is compelled to comply under penalty of prosecution. The feds themselves have no registration mechanism. So if a state doesn’t supply one, it is just too bad for the registrant. Yes, you would probably win if federally indicted for FTR, but what a pain it would be.
Veritas.
Even if you moved to PA Florida at this time will NOT remove you so you will still be in a Database shared all over and checked.
True. But you won’t have to register, update telephone info, cars, and have your name and home address plastered on websites, etc. etc. Also, you won’t have to worry about being imprisoned for a simple mistake you might make.
JC but a google search of your name WILL pull up the FDLE website listing for you regardless if you are in PA. I agree those things you wouldnt have to do sure help and maybe I am a bit luckier in my area because they dont bother me. My biggest Hassle the KARENS and others that google and look up your name. Im Grandfathered in a Residential community so my housing is ok but the Nosy neighbor can make issues. Florida also does not allow a offender to change names. I would Move to PA get off and change my last name to avoid Floridas grasp. I was told some years ago Utah was also a state you might be able to change your name but not in Florida. If you did you would have to update it anyway in Florida if still required to register. I hope one day this life sentence will be over!
OK. Maybe I’m missing something, but with the new federal registry taking effect, wouldn’t everyone in all states be forced to stay on that registry for 25 years after release from confinement, or release from conviction, if no subsequent confinement? If this is the case, why bother moving at all?
You are missing Tier Ones. You are also missing the fact that not all states (only a few) are SORNA compliant.
I imagine this helps our pending ex post facto case?
GC, the answer to your question can be found in the weekly update sent out earlier this month: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/weekly-update-2021-12-08-ref181/
A win in another jurisdiction is not binding here, but it can be used in a persuasive argument here.