NC: Win in North Carolina for Out of State registrants
Out of State registrants in North Carolina and attorney Paul Dubbeling were handed a win yesterday in Federal Court, when the Judge granted summary judgement in their favor!
The lawsuit, “concerns a discrete set of individuals who were required to register as sex offenders after moving to North Carolina prior to December 1, 2006, for out-of-state offenses committed prior to December 1, 2006.”
The crux of the lawsuit was that the determination of whether an out-of-state offense was “substantially similar” to a North Carolina offense and left it up to some employee in the Sheriff’s office to make that determination. That, the court found, violated the plaintiff’s due process rights.
A copy of the decision can be read here: Grabarczyk v. Stein – Order
This just goes to show how utterly absurd these laws are. I mean, who is to say someone is/is not going to reoffend because they moved there on December 2nd, 2006 or December 2nd, 2016 or 2026?
This just makes my head hurt…
Thanks for sharing.
Not much of a win, is it? For now, it only applies to those who moved to North Carolina before 2006, so the state still gets to retroactively apply the law to anyone who was convicted before 2006 but moved to the state afterwards. Also, if the discreet group of individuals are afforded some minimal due process, then aren’t they back on the registry?
Essentially that happened to me when the registry was started. My incident happened in 1991, arrest 1992, and sentenced in 1993. While I was locked up, they came up with registry to start in 1997. I got released in 1997. I was released onto probation, otherwise I would have not had to register. How is that fair? I had no say in a law that was made before I was sentenced.
I was getting 40% off my sentence at the time, anyone after me did not get that. But they did not retroactively come back on me and take my gain time away so they pick and choose which laws to make retroactive? Even when I was 19 and they changed the drinking age to 21, I still got to drink, they did not make that retroactive. I believe the law makers are breaking the law themselves and are criminals and no better than anyone in prison, which is where many (Not all) of them belong. There are good and and bad people in every profession from Politics all the way to sanitation workers. Sometimes we over look the good ones but the bad ones stand out like a sore thumb.
Atsome point in our lives this might’ve sounded like an insane question but not so much now. In hindsight, given the choice between serving that last 40% of your sentence and not being on the registry or getting out early, What would you choose today?
I would believe it or not chosen the registry even though I hate it. At least I can do whatever I want in my own home. I can take a shower without some creep checking out my hind parts for their pleasure. I can eat whatever I want instead of the nasty “Barely even food” they served while locked up.
I do not have to get into a fight over what is on the tv, I can go to the store whenever I want.
Yes you proposed a crazy question like the game we played when we were kids called “Would you rather”. Some freedom is better than none, but that is not an argument for the registry.
It is 99% probation just without the money. Now SOME places make you pay to register so in my book that is 100% probation.
The probation officer is now a deputy or city cop who comes and verify who you are. Your arrest record is now the registry.
You have restrictions on where you can go and who you can be around.
I cannot see anyway around the courts not declaring this punitive, and yet they do time and time again.
I see the following words again and again when there is a victory: “offenses committed prior to…” So it seems the courts look at the date of offense rather than date of conviction or date of sentence. In my case, the date of offense was nearly three years before the date of my Indictment, conviction, and sentence because LE took so long to investigate.
Ex Post Facto would always go by date of offense. The principle is having fair notice of the consequences at the time of the commission of the crime. For example, if they make tobacco use illegal tomorrow they can’t go back and arrest someone who smoked 5 years ago.
Date of conviction is what Michigan’s new draft registry bill goes by. Hopefully that is one of many items that is either corrected in committee or by court challenge. The court cited date of offense.
@FAC, I strongly believe my date of offense was advanced (falsified) so I would fall under the “Jessica Lunsford Act.” My date of offense was set as the day my computer was seized, not the date the JSO detective told me I was allegedly “caught” viewing CP. Is there any way to find out what my date of offense should be?
In the arrest affidavit there should be details of the offense. You can usually find it in the court docket, but you can also do a public information request under Florida’s sunshine law.
Thanks!
Same thing that happened to me here. Courts say I should only have to register 2 times a year but the Sheriffs office blames the FDLE and the FDLE just quotes the statues back to the court.
Although I shouldn’t have to register at all, how did I go from 1 time a year to 2 times and then 4 times? Next it will be monthly which for sure is probation.
Have said this before, all these agency have different rules because they interpret the laws, rules and ordinances however they want and put their own spin on it knowing there is ZERO enforcement from FDLE towards Sheriff’s offices application of the registries.
All 67 counties in Florida have a different way to register and what your requirements are.
A FAC member let us know about another win for a registrant in Hillsborough County prompting the sheriff of Flagler County to ask the Florida legislature to change the law:
https://www.news-journalonline.com/opinion/20200508/donrsquot-let-sex-offenders-hide-from-registration–sheriff-rick-staly
Some people are concerned about the last nine words of the Opinion since those who have committed a sex offense HAVE been held accountable through their prison and probation sentence, which can be for years. We all know that this statement would never have been made about murderers, armed robbers, etc. Three different FAC members have sent Letters to the Editor, but none live in Flagler County making it unlikely that they will be used by the local paper. It would be good if someone from Flagler County were to write a letter, but I very much understand the fear of retribution. I live with that daily in my own county.
Were we not held accountable for our actions by the sentences we SERVED already? We get punished every second of every day now with the registry. The only other judge I hopefully ever meet is God and According to the scriptures of both the Christian and Hebrew Bible’s God forgives and forgets our past when we truly repent.
Unlike the courts, God does not hold things over us forever. if He did, none of us would get a golden ticket to Paradise.
Also of note, the harder we push back on the registries, the harder law enforcement is going to make our lives a living Hell. Although not a reason for us to stop our efforts, believe they are going to throw every sneaky, low down effort at us to keep us from succeeding.
All of us need to watch out backs as we prepare a front for the battle that is coming. I pray we get a win soon because the more other states win, the more time it gives ours time to build a solid defense against ending the registry. We have limited resources to fight with, whereas the states will use untold millions of tax payers dollars to keep ONE person behind bars. And you can take that to the bank.
I’m rather sick of this “how they interpret the law” nonsense. Here is the ONLY way to interpret a law; An individual committed a crime in their home state. That individual got sentenced and punished in their home state. That individual COMPLETED their full punishment (prison, probation, registry requirements) in their home state. That individual moves to another state. That individual should be seen as someone who has already served what was handed down to them at sentencing and no longer required to register in the new state.
How f*cking hard is that for other state legislators to comprehend?
If we’re not making former drug convicts go back onto probation just because another states drug laws are different, then there’s no reason to make a former convicted sex offender go back on to the registry.
This should be a very easy argument to win in the courts and get this ridiculous law changed. I don’t see how it can’t be won.
No “Drama” and outrage has been created for drug dealers and murderers. There actually was little outrage when someone was arrested for a sex offense. I cannot quote a number but the majority of sex offenses are not a jeffery Dahmer situation where someone was kidnapped, raped and killed.
The registry created a sense that all of on it are Charles Manson and John Wayne Gacy rolled into one. On my registry listing, it makes it look like I have multiple victims when it is really just different charges for the same case.
Things have calmed down some though. I remember about 10 years ago, there was a group here in Central Florida that was going around randomly to registered persons homes and protesting with signs. They had zero connections to anyone on the registry and were just trying to get them to move. Many of the protestors admitted they did not even live in the county of the protest and just wanted to join to show their support.
Be funny if they forced someone to move from a place that didn’t affect them, and as a result moved right next door to a protestor LOL. Not sure why they stopped but glad they did as I might not have been as willing to put up with it. I would have sprayed them down with liquid dog feces if they came on my property, probably sending me back behind bars.
Just like in my neighborhood, the people who live right next door to me love me to death, the ones who live all the way at the end of the street and rarely see me stare at my house when they drive by hoping to see me committing a sex act right there in the front yard so they can send me back.
Cherokee,
I gotta disagree with you about no outrage made about drug dealers. Reagan may have been a great President when it came to other issues of this country but his “war on drugs” was sending innocent people to prison under the “guilt by association” rule. Trust me, there was drug dealer outrage. I remember a movie made for TV that actually helped to abolish the guilt by association as that was actually the title of the movie. A woman with a premade family started dating or married a new man and she had no idea he was a cocaine dealer. The cops raided the house and arrested her. She ended up doing time in prison for something she had no idea was happening right under her nose. Her entire family was effected by it and they pushed and pushed in court battles to get her out of prison. Eventually they did.
Think of this same scenario with people who have to register (even when they’ve completed their registration in their home state). It effects the families who live with them. The unwelcomed “check ups” as if you’re going through a prison cell inspection. The protesters that may come on to your property. The harassment of landlords that decided to rent to you. Etc, etc. etc. it’s the same basic scenario as the “guilt by association” of the drug war. It’s got to stop. It’s got to stop sooner not later. With something like 1 million people on the registry (and those who will be once they get released from prison), there have got to finally be enough people ASSOCIATED with those registered persons to cause a good rocking of the boat in court or to the legislature themselves.
I think you may have misunderstood me or maybe I worded it in the wrong way. I meant for example drug dealers are not on registries and EX drug dealers are mainly left alone. I am not talking about people currently selling or dealing drugs, I am speaking 100% After the sentence is over.
Other than having a felony maybe, they pretty much can get a job, do not have neighbors throwing rocks at their houses etc.
If I did or sold drugs then said I got clean and that wasn’t who I was anymore, 90% of the people would possibly give you a chance and say you made a mistake.
On the other hand, if you have any kind of sex offense, even peeing in public, you are a disgrace to society and should be hung by your manhood and have darts thrown at your face.
In prison you can tell anyone your charges and they are cool with it. However if they find out you did anything sexual, even if just being with your under aged girl friend, you are suddenly a child molester. Just wonder how many of those guys actually have under aged girlfriends before they got locked up but won’t admit it.
Because it is deemed civil and not criminal although it is criminal in my mind
what is funny to me is 20+ years ago many people on here were saying and thinking how great these laws are until they or a loved one is a recipient of these laws and now they scream it’s not right but yet they were cheering these laws on at one point. ohh how tides turn and they will turn at SCOTUS some decade
Even if we threw out the Civil vs. Criminal argument, the fact that people who were already sentenced were added should still be illegal. Most of us on here agree that if we knew this was coming, we would have fought our cases to the ends of the Earth.
I was not happy at all pleading guilty as only about 20% of what I was accused of was true. However, not having the money for a trial, my lawyer convinced me to plead guilty and I would most likely get probation. HA. The opposite happened, I made it easy for the prosecution and was sentenced to the max sentence available and for the 3 charges ( same case ) I was given three different sentences, that I had to serve back to back. Took ten years of appeals to get the rest of my sentence thrown out or would still be on probation today some 30 years later.
I accepted my fate on that messed up situation but again, like I said, if the judge would have said I would have to register for life, I would have probably walked out of the court room and ask for a continuance.
I guess I should have gotten a law degree because apparently as a law maker you can throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks and no one tries to remove it. Everyone walks past said crap but pretends they do not see it even though they know it should not be there. No one speaks up and questions why the crap is there and if they do, they are told to mind their place and do not cause trouble. If they push the issue, they are demoted or let go for bringing up the crap that shall not be named.
State legislators comprehend that completely. Their constituents don’t. Yet.
They may claim that SOR is “civil,” but penalties are definitely criminal. Once again, states and the federal government have this “Boogie Man Mentality” regarding registrants. Since registrants are deemed the most evil horrific people in this puritan, sex-phobic nation, anything can be done. And LEOs are brainwashed this zealotry.
Only registrants get slapped with these retroactive penalties.