Members of homeless camp arrested on charges of violating probation after camp was shut down
A group of homeless people was arrested Friday afternoon for violating probation after their camp, where they were required by their probation officers to stay, was shut down and there was nowhere else for them to go.
Of the 13 people who had been living at the camp, at least seven had GPS monitors or ankle bracelets registered to the site — in the woods at 4820 Highway 192 near Melbourne — that required them to return there during the evening or risk being in violation of their probation.
The owner of the property wanted the site bulldozed, the camp members said, and they were warned Tuesday by the Brevard County Sheriff’s Office that they had to vacate the area by 8 a.m. the next morning.
That put them in a quandary: if they stayed, they’d face trespass charges and violation of probation because the camp was being closed down. If they left, they also could face violation of probation because that’s where they were required to report.
Hopefully a sensible judge will see the catch-22 of this predicament and work with probationers to correct this situation.
So the Sheriff’s office set them up to violate?
Seeing how this was a catch 22 situation, I would hope that the judge and prosecutor show some leniency, and reinstate their probation. This was a situation that was pretty much out of their control. A damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.
The probation officers who arrested those guys should be fired for dereliction of duty. As a probation officer it was their job to help them integrate them back into society and at least make an effort to find them a place to live, even temporary, until they can find a more permanent setting. I smell lawsuits coming against the ever so “gods” of the Florida Department of Corruption (err Corrections)
If the probation officer doesn’t speak on their behalf and tell the truth, he/she should be fired and arrested for lying to officials, lying in a capacity as an official and causing others great harm and detriment because of those actions.
I had told you in a few past posts how out of the blue the officer who does my address checks was always super nice. And yet the last time I was checked on, he was doing and saying things that was causing the neighbors to come over afterwards and ask “What was that all about”?
I am saying that to say this. I believe there is a movement to get us all back on some kinds of charges so we can never get off the registries. So many places registered people are gaining wins, even if small. If the registries are ended, a lot of people are going to lose jobs.
Have you ever thought about the type of cop it takes to, instead of solving crimes, is driving around harassing people who are just trying to live their lives? I said before, if when I was in law enforcement, if there had been registries and they tried to assign me to that task force, I would have declined. If they said I had to, I would have resigned.
It is one thing to check on people who are on probation, but most of us have long since completed our obligations imposed by the courts. Now we are having yearly add ons to a registry that did not exist when many of our original charges were handed down. So we are living under a forced, illegal system of retroactive compliance. In other words, a police state.
The address check 4 times a year.. Why? I own my home for the past 10 years and have no thoughts of moving. When I go to Pennsylvania to visit my daughter and granddaughter I go and tell them when I am leaving and when I am getting back..
This year I came back on the date I told them and before I could get to register that I was back, They were at my door. That makes no sense to me. I could understand if I was late getting back. Even if I was late getting back I was registered in Pennsylvania. I would have the proof of when I left Pennsylvania since I tell them when I am leaving. I always get the officers name so if there are any questions they can call them to verify my information. But that checking and verifying my address four times a year is a waste of time and money.
Let’s think about this for a moment… If the registry is NOT punishment, then how does one GET ON the registry? Simple answer; You have to be CHARGED by police AND CONVICTED by a court. You don’t get caught peeing in a bush and automatically get put on the registry the moment the cop arrests you, right? Right. Just like you don’t get put on probation by the cop who arrests you for stealing cigarettes from a gas station. So, when you get put on probation and/or the registry it’s OBVIOUSLY part of your SENTENCE handed down by a judge at your day in court.
That means that being on a registry for life is a lifetime sentence. Having police stop by to do verification of your address long after you’ve completed probation means you’re still being treated as if you’re on probation. So the court’s sentence never ends.
To come off the registry in one state and then move to a state like Florida and get put back on it IS ex post facto or even double jeopardy as you’re being forced to do something that your original sentencing judge said would only be for 10 yrs (in your home state). And from my understanding based on what I’ve read in comments on this site over the years, FL doesn’t bother sending you in front of a judge to determine if you have to be put back on the registry. The DMV will notify the FDLE right then and there when you change your drivers license over to FL state from wherever you came from. Correct?
Has this been argued or will it be argued that the only reason someone ever got on a registry was through an initial court conviction and that would need to be the same process to put someone BACK on it?
Maestro
I respect you bro, having said that, one big flaw in your theory.
You said:
“OBVIOUSLY part of your SENTENCE handed down by a judge at your day in court.”
There was NO registry when I was sentenced. Judge did not even make any illusions to said horrors. In fact, the registry did not come about until 7 years after my incident. I was already doing a sentence when the immoral list was forced on people.
Seems I am not the only who was retroactively forced onto it. Seems an imbalance when you apply something to a group who had no chance to bargain the registry because of already being sentenced. And yet those who came after me and others, at least got to us that in some sort of plea, possibly for a lesser sentence. (Since the registry was, as they say in the Matrix “It is inevitable, Mr. Anderson”.)
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From the FAC story. That is as Jim Crow as it gets. Stay.. get arrested. Leave .. get arrested. My only question is.. What did the PO have to offer the individuals that are in a County mandated homeless situation? I thought it was the job description of the PO to help in exactly a case like this.
AL
When I was on probation, I was looking for somewhere to go. The probation officer pointed at an address where I got mail and asked why couldn’t I live there. I said “Because you cannot fit inside a PO BOX”. She did not find the humor in it and had the nerve to yell at me for saying that.
On what planet does this make sense where people getting arrested for being in a place they are supposed to be and officials doing nothing to make living arrangements. What’s the point of probation or parole if they violate people for things beyond their control? Another embarrassment for Florida.
Oh trust me, Florida is NOT embarrassed by this at all. What’s to be embarrassed about when the majority of people across the country find humor in the suffering of others while thumping their bibles? And whenever someone says “wHaT AbOuT ThE ViCtImS” we need to learn how to come back at them for that attempt at painting us into a corner. First of all; GO ASK THE VICTIMS, since we’re not allowed to even apologize to them. Secondly, then saying that “victim” crutch insinuates that EVERY offense of a sexual nature has a victim. Consenting couples getting caught in the night club restrooms don’t have a “victim”. The teenagers who took their own nude pics don’t have a “victim”. I’m so sick of this “victim” crap. The right makes fun of the left for always crying “victim” about everything but the right does the very same.
This probation issue is a trap. They knew what was going to happen. I read the article. First thought was; They needed people to arrest to get the proverbial pat on the back.
Probation is a literal WASTE of taxpayer money. They don’t “sUpErViSe” anything. Seeing a probationer 1 time per week or 2 times per month is hardly “supervision”. End probation. The amount of time you get from the judge should be the end of the issue once you’re released back into society.
I don’t know if Brevard has a homeless shelter. I know that in Volusia County registrants cannot use that facility. I suppose that the registrants should have camped out in front of the probation office. Unbelievable the callous and heartlessness shown.
Earth to Florida get rid of residency restrictions and stop driving people into homelessness, while claiming your communities are safe. How much will this cost tax payers? A society that doesn’t show compassion for all is a society that is sick. Who do we connect to get those in the probation office served their pink slips?
It has always been that when two laws conflict, the conflict is resolved against the government. Same with probation and parole conditions. A person cannot be placed in a position where he has to break one law or rule in order to comply with another. Then again, it may be different in the Democratic People’s Republic of Florida.
Personally, I think those guys should establish a camp in the parking lot of the probation office and/or sheriff’s department and register that address.
I agree. The Sheriff office and probation office is public property and they cannot be trespassed from there.
Try that here in Florida at a sheriff’s office and believe me, you would be told not to return unless you had business there. I was once sitting in my car waiting for the line to go down in the middle of the day. An officer came over and said someone called in a suspicious person loitering in the parking lot. I explained to him I was sitting in the a/c until the registration line got shorter. He said ok and walked away. But again, I had a reason to be there.
Although having said that, it would be pretty funny if a registered person’s camp popped up in the parking lot of law enforcement buildings.
CherokeeJack
Couldn’t one argue they do have business at the sheriff’s department as a tax payer? Excuse me officer I just want to see my tax dollars misused, oops I mean well spent.
I think it’s respectful that the journalist didn’t point out their registration status.
I didn’t know they were registered…Just as it should be IRL!
I was in this exact situation I had been living in my truck on a back road by one of the places I got loaded. Its a privat road in which the owner pays for off duty cops to sit there as security. I had been going here every night for a month . Everything was fine until my boss needed my truck to do a night delivery so I had my wife’s car instead of my work truck. The cop came down woke me up to ask me what I was doing. I explained to him he got all tight and started the whole your one of them garbage then told me I had to leave I tried to explain that I couldn’t he said go or I will arrest you. I left , my gps went off they called me told me to go back I went back told the cop he said I don’t care what they told you I told you to leave if you come back again you won’t have to worry about your gps because you will be in a jail cell. When I left again my gps went off I talked to another person they asked if I had anywhere I could go I said maybe to my wife’s place of work they said go there now and we will see if there is anything around that your not supposed to be around (ie. Schools etc.) There was not they said to stay there until 6:00am and to report all of what happened to my po first thing in the morning . keep in mind I had been there since 8:00 pm this cop didn’t come bother me until 4:00 am he had been there since 5:00 pm the normal time they start “gaurding the property ” so he seen me come down seen me park I never got out of my car just went to sleep and he waits until 4:00am to find out why I was there I was lucky that the person at the monitoring center actually listened to my explanation of why I had left my registered spot and tried to be helpful instead of one of the ones who go by they’re little script of what to say and don’t care to listen .my Po’s response was that I should have made sure it was OK for me to be there before I registered the spot. I had called the sheriffs office to make sure I was in compliance with my restrictions. What else could I have done ? I had no way to find out who owned the road or how to contact them.
Is there any status updates regarding the two Ex Post Facto challenges in Florida and the 11th Circuit? I wonder if any of these homeless registrants might qualify for ex post facto relief. That would be great.
Both are fully briefed and we are awaiting a decision. There is no timeline for when that might be.
Darn good point cherokee
Could this be an opening to get the case in front of the 5th DCA. It might be an “in” to attack residency restrictions or possibly reporting requirements.
I know that they are already represented by legal counsel and their motion to dismiss was denied because the defendants didn’t have housing already secured.
Unfortunately one of the defendants cases would need to proceed to trial with no plea bargains and the defendant would need to lose at trial so as to have the opportunity to appeal to the 5th DCA. I would NEVER wish that on anybody.
Poking holes in the draconian laws from a constitutional standpoint is the only way to get them modified or abolished.
Roger
The good “news” is, it made the news. It could have very well been swept under the radar. Not sure how much publicity it got but I know when these things happen, those that care, often step in. Regardless if it is lawyers, the red cross (dont think they accept registered persons to live in their housing but they do hand out food and sometimes vouchers.)
But the main thing is they not be sent/re-sent to prison.
Cherokee, I agree with you completely regarding the newspaper article. The writer delicately stepped around the “they can’t find housing because they’re registered sex offenders” explanation without sensationalizing it while still getting information in about curfews and setback requirements. I was surprised that they even showed a picture of the XT device, again, without adding lurid details.
One of the biggest hurdles these guys face, and it’s the same thing every registered person here in Brevard faces, is the County’s proximity ordinance. Many of the agencies or groups that may be available to help these guys are located too close to an exclusion zone so they can’t even go there to get help.
The section of my comment where I wrote about one of these poor guys having to actually go to trial and lose and then going through the appeals process is, I believe, the only way to get this in front of the Appeals Court. I’m a retired engineer not an attorney so I am possibly, hell probably, wrong but I believe that’s the only way to have standing before the court to even be heard. The 5th DCA is the only legal entity that can help us here. I guess you could file in the Federal Circuit court but that threshold may be much higher.
I would NEVER NEVER NEVER wish prison time on ANYONE…. been there and done that. I was BLESSED to do my time and be able to come home in one physically and mentally intact piece. I met others in there who didn’t have that experience.
I’m trying to track the case(s) of these guys here in the court system. I’ll let you know what, if anything, I can find.
Roger
I was somewhat of a wimp before going to prison. I was NOT a coward but a softy. I have always worn my heart on my sleeve that is why I guess I did not make a good cop because I fought for justice for ALL, even those who got arrested.
Anyway, I am not saying I was in the worst prison on Earth but I learned to stand up for myself. What is ironic is, I had more grief from the guards than I did most inmates. Most inmates had the same goal as me, getting home to see their families. The guards had nothing to lose since it was their word against yours when you got slammed up against a wall for laughing during count. And who are they going to believe, a loser inmate or a well regarded saint of an officer (I just puked).
I still find it insanely shocking that there are “exclusion zones” but yet they don’t apply to gun criminals. If these zones make sense for anyone, then they make sense for a whole lot of other people.
That alone shows that the criminal regimes are not credible. They are nothing but liars and criminal aggressors.
Will Allen
I think you are right. Say a school shooter eventually gets released and has done all their time even probation. What is to keep him / her (its usually a him) from living in a house right next to the school they shot up?
And yet we are banned from places like some parks that had nothing to do with our crimes.
Yep. But it’s not just school shooters. Anyone that has shot anyone, anywhere, is more dangerous than almost all people listed on the Oppression Lists. They have usually caused more harm also.
Heck, anyone that has even pointed a gun at someone is more dangerous and has caused a lot more harm than most on the OLs.
Will Allen
I know my comment is going to get thrown back on me by someone saying “How can you judge, you are a sex offender”. Having said that, Mental health experts have said someone who shoots someone in cold blood, is like an animal that gets its first taste of blood. It gets easier each time. There are some people out there who get a thrill in their shorts when they watch someone beg for their lives.
And yet I see these people (if you can call them that) get a low bond when someone with a first time sex charge that may not even be true, are often denied bond as a risk to the community. Really because I am a news junky and they other day I saw someone who got arrested for a murder and the news showed the list of past arrests which exceeded 30 arrests and he still got a bond.
So I said all that to say this, what I did was wrong even though consensual. It was wrong. But the public gets up in arms if we are released or even live around them even if our crime is from 31 years ago in my case. But let a 30 times felon out and no one blinks. So maybe They have to free up jail and prison space I guess to house all the sex offenders?
Be careful when you recite “Give me Liberty or give me death” you are more likely to get the latter.
Roger
I would love to know what happens to these cases. Please ask FAC to post if you get more information.