Legal Update – What’s going on with the Ex-Post-Facto Suit?
Earlier this year, thanks to the contributions of many of our members, we hit our fundraising goal to initiate a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the sex offender registration requirements on ex-post-facto grounds.
Many have reached out to FAC or posted comments asking about the status of this ex-post-facto suit, so we wanted to provide a quick update in order to keep everyone in the loop and assure our members that things are still moving forward.
A lawsuit of this magnitude requires a lot of planning and research before it can be filed. We first need to identify and research the strongest issues, find the right plaintiffs and retain the best experts before a case can even be filed. The process easily takes months.
Deciding which claims to set forth requires an analysis of how the laws in Florida are similar to (or different from) the laws in other states that have been successful (or unsuccessful) in similar claims. Finding the right plaintiffs is not just a matter of picking people who want to be plaintiffs, but those who will present well and be articulate, can be available for hearings or depositions, are willing to be named in case they can’t proceed anonymously. This not only involves an evaluation of these individuals’ representations, but examining their underlying case. Similar evaluations have to go into experts before they are retained.
While all this is going on, cases in other jurisdictions impact the timing of our case. In December 2016, a petition for Writ of Certiorari was filed in Doe v. Snyder (the 6th Circuit case finding the registry punishment and a violation of ex post facto) and the Supreme Court of the United States has still not decided whether it will be heard. If it’s heard, some of the issues we could bring in our case would be redundant – because the same issues might be decided by a court that would have superior authority. With so many potential points to challenge, we need to ensure our resources are not misspent.
As much as time does not feel like it’s on our side as we are being punished, when it comes to the courts and these issues, it seems time is on our side, as many of the recent cases have provided relief and useful precedent.
Please be assured that things are moving in the background. Much of what is going on is the important stuff – preparation and planning. Much of what is going on also can’t be disclosed publicly so as not to prepare the opposition.
So what is going on with the Ex facto case keep seeing two weeks then a month Just be honest you waiting on the Gundry case?
FAC, You have been putting off the filing of the EX POST FACTO lawsuit for more than 2 months (almost 3).
First you said end of August (IN JULY)….
Then you said end of Summer (Sept 21st)
Now we are into October and no updates on when will this be filed.
You have been asked repeatedly if you were waiting on the Gundy Case to be heard; and we, the members of FAC have heard NOTHING from you.
Just silence.
Sean. Well shoot, I guess beggers can be choosers. I mean, do you want it done right or do you want it done fast? One way has a chance, the other is just a waste of time. The courts aren’t going to move fast when they get the case anyway. So, are you going to be chastising the courts too? They haven’t been silent on anything in my opinion. We don’t want them to be loud mouthed about the plans. The element of surprise is one of the few advantages we will have, and we should take it.
We all want relief, and yeah we all want it now, but sometimes you have no choice but to be patient and grateful that at least there is someone doing something. What have you done? Anything even close to what the core FAC folks have done? When is SEAN going to file that ex post facto? I don’t mean to be offensive, and I mean that sincerely, but come on. It’s readily apparent some people are doing something, why give them a hard time over not doing what you want when you want it?
Things are happening and it’s counterproductive when a small few greasy wheels put undue stress on those who are doing the heavy lifting.
You’re the guy (or gal) sitting in the broken down car being pushed, sipping sweet tea, yelling at others to push faster. If you want it to go faster, get out and push. Offer your help.
With all due respect AND compassion to you and your situation. Seriously. Not wanting to inflame anyone or start a riot, but it’s a shame to see a handful of people giving FAC (all volunteer) sacrificers a hard time over timing. I don’t know why they even approve comments like that when they add little if any value to the conversation.
@ Westerndichotmy I am an out of state person who has sent monies in the both funds. I wanna know where that money is going. Now I don’t know weather or not you sent monies in yourself, that is not my business. I want an Account of my money. Since F.A.C has not given us an answer I have not sent any money to them this month until I see something filed. Now I am just going to be told I be hurting myself not too. As a consumer I know the power of the purse strings. When I see something that looks like a legal document that been filed then and only then will I send more money for “out of state challenge fund” I lived in Arizona having my named googled and showing up in Florida does not bother me one bit I live in a petty good state for the past 7 years Now until I see something from F.A,C that they filed No more money
J.G. We had a member call last month on which this was discussed. Because of a case out of the 9th Circuit, the complaint had to be revised. It will be filed shortly as soon as it’s ready. If you don’t want to support our efforts, don’t.
Folks. Let’s slow our roll a bit. We all know how slowly the wheels of justice turn.
Amen! If we can’t show a united front of support for one of the few organizations in the world that is advocating for folks situated as we are, then we are hurting our cause more than any of the moronic, unconstitutional minions like Ron Book, politicians, prosecutors et. al. ever could.
We all want to die free and our only hope to do so legally is found in organizations like FAC. I hope they take their time and get it right. Even if I’m dead when they do so. It’s not about any individual. It’s all about equality under the law for everyone. FAC seems to be the only folks willing to put themselves out there on behalf of those most despised by society. God bless and in God’s time.
Amen. … and thank you FAC for all that you have done and will do.
I understand frustration but when you are blatant about “if you want to help us do or if you don’t want to don’t” what type of tone does that set for others (members and outsiders alike) to look upon? Even if the delivery of the questions were not eloquent the underlying frustration (derived from fear and desperation) is simply “Hey can we get a status update”? Come on. I have been following this forum for a couple of years now. You (The Organization as a whole) are better than that. Continue to Act like it and never let one situation sway your stance.
As for the RSO community as a whole. Cut these people a little slack and really think how you want to communicate with the Hand that feeds you.
Firm belief in a United Front even when we disagree.
Anon for now.
Thanks Anon.
Thank you Western!
WesternDichotomy your comment “I guess beggers can be choosers.”
you may want to think twice, people have donated to this and paid for this! thus i think they have the right to be kept 100% informed! and that is far from happening here! WesternDichotomy i believe if i’m not mistaken we were told this was going to be filled like a year ago
Concerned and Sean,
To first address your question about that lawsuit in as explicit and direct a manner; following the July decision out of the 7th circuit (Vasquez v. Foxx) which rejected some of the similar arguments as we planned for our suit, we decided to re-posture some of our complaint. That required additional research, re-drafting, etc. This is in process and being done as quickly as humanly possible. It is almost complete but will be filed when it’s perfect – not before. There are other factors that contribute to the timing of lawsuits which are part of a litigation strategy and which should not be discussed openly in a public forum. We do not have the time to send private updates and much of the reasoning is privileged information regardless.
Secondly, to address your issues with our responsiveness. I chair the legal committee, so accountability for your complaints fall on me. I am not a paid employee of FAC, I am a volunteer. I have my own law practice, a business, a family and other personal obligations. I put in 3-4 hours a day working on FAC’s cases, answering emails or calls from members, responding to web comments, etc. I brief our board and membership (via posts on our site and email updates) on changes in laws and the status of other active cases across the country. As I write this response to you under the palpable pressure of your wanting to get this case filed, we have another case (the SORR challenge) that is going to trial in less than 3 weeks that is more time sensitive.
Although our organization has the support of outside counsel, such as the ACLU/Legal Aid/FJI and some big-hearted private attorneys – they are pro-bono too! They work for free or in the hope they will collect from the other side if we win. The funds we collected all go towards expert witnesses, filing fees and litigation expenses. Anyone that thinks $30,000 covers everything in a case of this magnitude (that will likely drag on for years in appeal), has never paid for a single day’s worth of deposition transcripts! Try calling them liars (like Sean likes to call us) and see how long their representation sticks. Many times delays are not even on them. Our plaintiffs are the most sympathetic among us – they don’t have transportation or consistent phone access and some sleep on the streets. We are at the mercy of their situations.
I will continue to do my best to manage current and pending litigation while keeping the membership apprised of developments. If anyone else wants to step up and take my position, they are welcome to it!
You are soooo appreciated , please don’t let one or two selfish comments deter you. I’m sure there are many others that would agree with me when I say Thank You!! For your help.
Thanks Kristian
Keep doing what you are doing PLEASE.
If you don’t like what FAC is doing try doing it alone and see how far you get. Ron Book is loving the dissension. There are court cases that shows we are making progress. If we keep moving forward we will all be better off. If we move backwards nothing will change. You can’t tell the outcome of a ball game at half time. Just look at the Denver Broncos and Kansas City Chiefs game last Monday. You only have to win by being 1 point ahead. The Denver quarterback gets paid $37 Million for 2 years, the Chiefs quarterback probably makes $500 thousand a year. It’s not how big you are ,it’s the end results. Thanks FAC
Well said. I’m in a hurry, like Sean and others are. But we got lucky that another circuit ruled on a relevant issue in the interim. A gift to be able to revise accordingly before filing.
We can do this in haste or we can do it right. We cannot do both, because the law simply will not evolve on our preferred timetable.
I am so thankful for what FAC is doing. If it takes time to do it right, then so be it. FAC has never let us down and it’s not going to this time. Just be patient…and appreciative.
Apologies. Frustrated at naysayers. We should be supporting each other instead of causing divide. It is apparent that fac is doing things. The least anyone can do is ask respectfully for an update rather than be belligerent.
Sean
As we explained on the last member call. Because of a case out of the 7th Circuit, we elected to do some re-drafting. It will be filed shortly but not before it’s ready.
By you repeatedly harassing us (and I delete a good number of your comments), it will not make this happen any faster.
FAC there will always be another case! I don’t know if Sean donated or not but correct me if I’m incorrect we were told this was going to be filled last year. By people being told x will be done in 2 months, then in a week several times over and over again and it never occurs is upsetting! especially to people that have donated! thus i don’t think when someone asks whats going on and being told it will be done this week or next week over and over again is not harassing! It is called inquiring! especially true when a person has been repeatedly told it will happen and does not. then to give thanks to “WesternDichotomy” when they state ” I guess beggers can be choosers.” condoning that i think could have been worded better. but i’m sure this or my comment to: WesternDichotomy will most likely be censored like the last 2 have been on this subject thus. all the censorship that happens here is one reason i no longer visit this page every day as things are being censored that is not hateful, vulgar, etc…
Looks like you weren’t censored. And I apologized. Let’s move on. Stanks
TO: FAC LEGAL CHAIR
First I would like to thank you and all the other volunteers for your help and support and my behalf and on the behalf of everyone else that is harmed by these laws and afraid to go outside from constant fear of arrest and being shamed by neighbors, etc…!
It is just very frustrating and stressful being harmed by these laws and constantly hoping something will change! I plead guilty in 1999 for a 1998 crime at that time i was told to plea guilty or state will charge you with additional counts and should i go to trial and lose then i go to prison for 25 years, should i win the feds will then charge me. pleading guilty i was supposed to be on the shamming list for 5 years and received 2 years probation then it went to 10 years then 15 then 20 now 25 or life plus all the additional laws they add onto it like vehicle info and there you only have 48 hours to update that info so if vehicle breaks down and you rent one or by another vehicle on Friday afternoon you are in violation of the law. if i’m hospitalized from an accident, medical emergency, etc… by me being in the hospital more then 2-3 days i violated the law and subject to arrest as there is no exception.
In closing, i and the rest of us deep down know things take time and just an update from someone as to a little bit of what’s going on instead of saying later this week or next week it will be filled would greatly help with our stress levels
Thank You Again,
Just a reminder. Even if you win on ex post facto grounds it will likely not impact the length of your registration in Florida, unless you were retroactively placed in the registry later. Remember that registration in Florida is for LIFE and the 10.15.20.25, etc year numbers only indicate when you can ASK to be removed. The court does not HAVE to remove you. Has anyone with a 20/25 year number EVER been removed from the registry in Florida? We should be getting to a point in time where some adults should be coming up on that 25 year mark.
My offense was in 91 I got 4 years probation. Then got put on registration I think I qualify hopefully
JOe M,
that is 100% incorrect it was first only 5 years then that got moved to 10 years then that went to 15 ………
Just received a letter in snail mail. It was from an Orlando law firm and said that they were “preparing to file a Federal lawsuit alleging that the Florida Sex Offender Registry statute violates the United States Constitution.” It also said they wanted to “discuss… a 2016 Federal case (precedent) that has sparked others to also file lawsuits in Federal Courts challenging the sex offender registries in other jurisdictions” and offered their services if paid a down payment to retain them.
Is this connected with your lawsuit in any way? Is it even legitimate?
It is not connected in any way with ours. Can you scan a copy and send it to Legal@floridaactioncommittee.org?
What law firm and also can you give me lawyer referrals on who does this offense was in 91 only charge ever My time should be finished So im trying to find a lawyer who does this
Let’s go into this fight with the intent to win. It is long overdue letting our legislators violate the Constitution with impunity. Oh thank heaven for FAC!
What is going on with the Ex Post Facto challenge? Its well past the Spring of 2018 and this was started in early 2017. At the time we were told mid-late 2017 for file. The longer it goes the longer relief waits.
It will be filed within 2 weeks. Waiting on stuff from the Plaintiffs.
Thank yous guys so,oooo very much!!!
Once it is filed, will there be a way (here or on some other site) for us to see how it is proceeding? Live or daily updates?
I will provide continuous updates. Nothing will happen daily, so there is no need for a live feed. When a new pleading comes in or a hearing is set, I’ll post the update.
Hello,
I am still waiting to hear when it will actually be filed. We were told 2 weeks almost month ago. Last nights attempted call in was to discuss it, to me that means still not ready to proceed.
An actual update to the time frame would be great.
Were you not able to attend the call?
By the time I tried there were issues so I was not privy to any news or updates
We will have another call soon.
I was told the end of August, the end of summer. When I stated that the end of summer was Sept 21, FAC apologized and said a couple of weeks.
My question is this….
The suit is for the abolishment of the registry, the ex post before 2004, or a tiered system?
Anything but the first will do me no good as even tho I “tested” and have multiple “clinical experts” who say I pose no threat to anyone (not even including my failing health as evidence) the State of Fla takes it upon THEMSELVES to “classify” me as a Violent Predator
I am also waiting to here.. please let me know what is going on..
This is a comment for FAC. Who are the plaintiffs? Any lawsuit that comes up against the state of Florida or Brevard County I want you to know that my name is available.
The plaintiffs are “John Does” as they wish to remain anonymous.
The complaint is against the State of Florida.
Thank you for the reply. If you ever need a ‘real’ name just let me know. My friends say I’m pretty proficient in ‘poking the bear in the eye with a stick’. I believe when we see wrong we have an obligation to speak up. Silence is ‘action’…cowardly action.
So has it been filed yet? If not what can I do to help? My charge was in 1996 given 5 years probation with S/o counseling was not told to register until I was almost done with probation then told 20 yrs got a failure to comply in 07 because I moved and reported my new address but didn’t go to the dmv and change my address, lost my house my car and custody of my son that I was awarded in 04.
I just wanted to make a comment on all the ex-post facto laws that are being considered and implemented everywhere. Any restrictions or extra responsibilities of any kind being added to anyone after there initial sentence would be singling out for punishment. Which would be a punishment without due process.
When public servants become such they are required to agree to an oath of office , Which is a civil legal and binding contract with the citizenry. This oath is a promise, a vow, a giving of one’s sacred honor to abide by the constitution as written.
The purpose of the oath is to hold over elected officials and those they hire to assist them to the Constitution. A constitutional republic under law..
Any public official not living up to this oath are themselves opening themselves to punitive action.
good luck with that…. Unless you can run for election, beat them and change the laws yourself
That would be me! – I was sentenced in 1995 in state of Virginia- but was just re- arrested March 2017 in Brevard co for failure to register a temporary address with DMV for which I was unaware of. I’m currently on 2 yrs house arrest then 3 yrs probation to follow
You are a victim of Brevard County Florida’s visitor motto: “Come to Brevard on vacation and go home on probation”. Probation in Brevard is inundated with ‘nut cases’. These people have nothing better to do than destroy lives and families.
Yes, I Agree! I so Hate this county and their money making scheme. Because of this bs, I’m in dept at just about 15k.- 5k for the Lawyer , another 3k for bond, then another 2600 for ankle monitor, then while checking our sailboat the ankle monitor caught a life line and snapped off falling in the water – they charged me 1500 to replace it. Then 682.91 court fees and now still counting probation fees
Kristian, don’t hate the country, Hate the politician’s who come up with these BS laws and run it. They are not human beings They are products of the machine called “corrupt government”. If you feed them a dollar (or much, much more) they will do what you or your group wants done. They do what the machine says regardless of who it hurts. They themselves are nothing more than uncaring, non thought processing drones.
No, The County ( Brevard ) not country
I thought you meant county. We are in agreement about Brevard.
😉👍
my apologies, eyes went fuzzy and I saw country instead of county. But yes, Brevard and all the other counties in this state need to stop, look at all the scientific evidence, and listen to the professionals who do the studies and also listen to the spewing of fodder that comes out of their mouths and fix THE PROBLEM.
The corruption will never be stopped as long as there are pockets to fill (jail, police, probation, ankle monitor fees)
The fear of the phrases of “child molester, predator, pedophile, sex offender” will continue as long as there are uneducated people; unwilling to bend, or even listen.
When you throw a pebble into a calm lake, the splash is insignificant, YET, the ripples are great and far reaching.