Florida can’t move the finish line on removal.
A huge order came out of the 10th Circuit (Florida) in Polk County today. It’s extremely significant for anybody who is nearing the finish line and will become eligible to petition for removal under Florida Statute 943.0435(11).
Florida provides registrants only two opportunities to be removed from the State’s sex offense registry. The first applies only to Romeo and Juliet cases. The second is under 943.0435(11).
Prior to 2007, 943.0435(11) provided an opportunity to petition for relief after 20 years without subsequent arrest. In 2007, the State moved the finish line to 25 years and added a bunch of offenses that would render someone never able to petition for removal.
Today, a Circuit Court Judge ruled that the state can’t move the finish line. That alone, was a decision that is consistent with the same ruling judges in several other Florida Circuits have made, but what makes this one extra special is that the Judge expressly found the “2007 amendment to be punitive in nature”!
It’s rare and so refreshing when a Judge has the integrity to call things as they are.
A copy of the order (redacted, to avoid the petitioner the publicity he is trying to get rid of by seeking the order) can be found here
Ron Kleiner was the attorney on this AGAIN. Why am I not surprised?
Way to go!!
.yea what happened to the 10 year law that was first implemented? Maybe the same judge needs to answer that one!.
Maybe another lawsuit needs to be filed to address this change from 10 to 20 years…..
No need to sue. If the law said 10 years, just file for removal.
GREAT NEWS!!
So what does that mean? That the state can’t enforce the 25 years, only the 20 years?
It means his case was pre-2007 and therefore they can’t increase his time to 25 years.
My case was filed and I was arrested on July 2006, but my conviction date is Feb. 2007. For the purpose of being retroactive, does it matters when in 2007 the law was put in effect?
Im 1996 out of state (ny) and not on public registry there: completed all sanctions 2002. Came to florida Was taken on a poss ftr here in 2016 but they dropped and filed no information and didnt even proceed to indictment: does this help me?
Sorry just still a bit lost if this helps me in any way?
FAC
I think you mean they cannot increase it to 25 years?
My Case was from 1991
They changed me from 20, to 25 and now life for no reason other than because they could. Or at least did anyway
FAC, you mean “25” years?
Sorry, yes. Corrected
You got it right the first time, FAC. His case was pre-2007, and therefore they can’t increase his time to 25 years.
JZ
Funny I asked the same thing above 2 days ago and got no response.
CJ, I try to help out if I happen to see an open question that hasn’t been answered. Glad I could help clear that up.
JZ
Thanks
Divided we fall, together we stand !
Husband visited friends in FL about 15 yrs after crime in AZ and has been on FL registry ever since. Can he be removed from FL’s registry now, 23 yrs since AZ conviction (and with no subsequent crimes since conviction in 1997?
Your question is a bit off-topic, but how long has he been off probation?
perhaps you would want to help wit the out of state suit
this is HUGE, especially coming out of Polk County, and for ANY Fl judge to acknowledge anything associated with the registry is punitive
Indeed. Sheriff Grady Judd must be foaming at the mouth in fury.
The wording of this statute is something that has been troubling to me for some time. As with many such statutes, it is sufficiently vague as to prevent releasing any of us from registration indefinitely. My underlying conviction was in 2005. All sentences were 100% complete in 2006. In 2016, I was arrested for a registry violation due to human error. The charges were never formally filed by the state’s attorney and the case shows “Dropped/Abandoned/No Information” when you look up the case on the Clerk’s website. But there was an arrest, which seems to technically trigger the disqualification clause of the statute. I have not been arrested or charged with anything else.
A more reasonable way to have written the law to permit removal was unless there was a new conviction involving sexual crimes. But as it is written, an arrest for a driving offense or fish and game violation would reset the clock, even if the charges were dropped.
Agreed and this is a significant challenge for some people.
Does the clock start at the date of offense or the date of conviction? In my case, the feds waited more than 3 years to even charge me for an offense they claim occurred in 2006.
Neither. The 20 year clock starts AFTER you are released from probation or prison if you were lucky enough not to get probation, conditional release, or “community control” after prison:
“(11) A sexual offender must maintain registration with the department for the duration of his or her life, unless the sexual offender has received a full pardon or has had a conviction set aside in a postconviction proceeding for any offense that meets the criteria for classifying the person as a sexual offender for purposes of registration. However, a sexual offender:
(a) Who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 20 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release;”
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0943/SEC0435.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0943-%3ESection%200435#0943.0435
“sanction” is defined as follows:
“a sanction imposed in this state or in any other jurisdiction includes, but is not limited to, a fine, probation, community control, parole, conditional release, control release, or incarceration in a state prison, federal prison, private correctional facility, or local detention facility;”
The inclusion of “but is not limited to” is horrifying.
In my instance, i have been arrested for volunteering with children. This arrest was brought on by the other parents (my daughter is, rather was, involved with a sports team) who took issue with my being at my daughter’s events and decided to make false statements. So, the registry itself can be the thing that causes you to suffer the false arrest and prevent removal. It makes no matter if the charges are dropped or even if subsequent charges are brought against the parents who lied. Their actions have now sealed my fate (as far as the law stands now).
Very promising development indeed. Noticing that the cases defendant through his lawyer relied on to persuade the judge were out of state cases (OK, NC, Ohio). Don’t we have Florida case law that would support the proposition that retroactively moving a date goalpost for legal relief from sanction is punishment, in a criminal law context (not necessarily SOR-related)?
Yes, this one.
As I read this, it does not appear to be binding precedent. Rather it is persuasive, meaning another court does not have to follow the ruling that the amended law is punitive. Also, all sanctions of conviction must be completed (ie. all prison, all probation, and all finest? Am I correct in that assessment?
Correct
Take any victory that you can, no matter how small.
It appears that all registrants can petition for removal after either 20 or 25 years in Florida. Everyone on the registry should petition for removal as soon as they are eligible. Registrants in Florida should push for removal instructions to be placed on their registration forms so every registrant is made aware of this.
One suggestion would be to recognize that legislators, law enforcement, prisons (state and private), and some judges will do everything to protect their income. Pure and simple. The court process is like a pinball game with issues won and lost repeatedly. One approach would be to educate yourselves and then educate the masses who are unaware and thus the voters.
How can this ruling help registrants not in the 10th
Circuit?
DQ, this decision is not binding precedent in any other court. It is only persuasive. This decision was made by only one judge at the trial court level, not a panel of judges at the appellate court level. Therfore it is simply persuasive.
The way they word the statute, any arrest for a simple misdemeanor or felony will prevent one from ever being able to petition for removal.
That is good news. I suppose I’ll never understand, and maybe my memory fails me but, prior to the 20 year stipulation I thought the term was 10 years and was changed mid 90’s. What’s the difference from moving the goal posts then?
Fantastic news for me. I was registered in 2003 back when i was 23 years old for hooking up with a girl who lied about her age. so that means only 3 more years left and i can petition to get off this stupid thing. I’ve lived in another state over 5 years now never been in trouble before this or after this. This would be a gigantic stone off my chest.
Scott
It is great news but raises questions. First off, just because we CAN petition doesn’t mean we will be granted relief. (Depends on the judge).
But my bigger question is, if you are denied, how long do you have to wait to try again? And can you appeal? So many questions, so few answers. That shows just how messed up the registry is. Law makers just throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks. It is up to us to spend untold millions (Collectively) to fight these BS so called “Non punitive” laws.
It does seem however that there is less pushback when one individual goes before a judge for relief than when an entire class of plaintiffs pushes for an action. The Government would rather lose one registrant rather than 1000s.
That’s the hole point we spend billions to keep “Law and Order” progressing and we are being used to fill the gap of criminals vs who is benefiting from us being prosecuted a second time for a non criminal like act victimless crime that’s retroactive (violating one of the registry rules). If the registry ended tomorrow tons of money wouldn’t be generated and people would be out of a job we aren’t just fighting the bull shit laws named after family’s that were devastated by horrific crimes we had nothing todo with we are fighting law and order, judges that want to be appointed or elected again, politicians that use us to get elected. I studied economics for 4 years I get it. Attorney have told me the same thing 2 different ones. They also had to “stay in line” on sex offender issues” one of my attorneys very smart guy would bounce dozens of cases off me show me videos after a while I realized he was pre trying the case for my reactions etc. during one of my after designation registry violations. He was good but he told me about a trial he had beating the state how some other attorneys and DA downed him even though he beat them with law and in my case I noticed he was timed to fight motions that were denied without prejudice he swore he was correct on so maybe he wasn’t so good for me.
Jack
But those same defense lawyers who are afraid to look soft on sex offenders (There is nothing soft about doing what is right) will help get relief for a guy who just murdered the entire residence of a nursing home full of sweet old ladies.
AND, as much as it pains me to say, even the Grandma killer deserve a fair defense, even if guilty as the day is long.
I get lawyers all the time wanting to take my case but they all want an amount that seems extreme to just get a correction on my designation. Then of course they always tell you “I am 100000% sure you were sentenced illegally” but that ” If we lose, tough turds, still got to pay and no guarantees”.
I wish all of the judges were like this. This is indeed great news.
could this 10 years to 20/25/life fit under the same
case law challenge retroactivate case’s prior to 2007
which means that case law stands at 10 years befor
2007 case law. this does not mean relief for us
off the registry.
I posted the content below in an older thread back in February
https://floridaactioncommittee.org/person-ordered-removed-from-florida-sex-offender-registry/
Here it is again:
There seems to be a lot of confusion about durations of registration before petitions can be filed. I hope this clears things up.
FAC, feel free to add this to your “Resources” list of documents.
For “Sexual Predators:”
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1997/775.21
(g) A sexual predator must maintain registration with the department for the duration of his or her life, unless the sexual predator has had his or her civil rights restored, or has received a full pardon or has had a conviction set aside in a postconviction proceeding for any felony sex offense that met the criteria for the sexual predator designation. However, a sexual predator who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 10 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release, may petition the criminal division of the circuit court for the purpose of removing the sexual predator designation.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1998/775.21
(l)A sexual predator must maintain registration with the department for the duration of his or her life, unless the sexual predator has had his or her civil rights restored, or has received a full pardon or has had a conviction set aside in a postconviction proceeding for any felony sex offense that met the criteria for the sexual predator designation. However, a sexual predator who was designated as a sexual predator by a court before October 1, 1998, and who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 10 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release, may petition the criminal division of the circuit court in the circuit in which the sexual predator resides for the purpose of removing the sexual predator designation. A sexual predator who was designated a sexual predator by a court on or after
October 1, 1998, who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 20 years, and who has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release may petition the criminal division of the circuit court in the circuit in which the sexual predator resides for the purpose of removing the sexual predator designation.
Duration of 20 years added by 98-81
http://laws.flrules.org/1998/81
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2005/775.21
Duration of 30 years added
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2007/775.21
Duration of life added.
For “Sexual Offenders:”
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1997/943.0435
No duration in statute.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1998/943.0435
(11) A sexual offender must maintain registration with the department for the duration of his or her life, unless the sexual offender has had his or her civil rights restored or has received a full pardon or has had a conviction set aside in a postconviction proceeding for any felony sex offense that meets the criteria for classifying the person as a sexual offender for purposes of registration. However, a sexual offender who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 20 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release may petition the criminal division of the circuit court of the circuit in which the sexual offender resides for the purpose of removing the requirement for registration as a sexual offender.
Duration of life/20 years added by 98-81
http://laws.flrules.org/1998/81
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2007/943.0435
Duration of 25 years added by 2007-209
http://laws.flrules.org/2007/209
It is interesting in the statute the designation of “unless the sex offenders had their civil rights restored”… they are adjudication withheld and they retain their civil rights?
Sorry I meant… many are adjudication withheld and they already retain their civil rights
Years ago NY moved the finish line for level 1’s. 10yrs to 20yrs on the hit list retroactive. Upheld on challenge.
I wonder if the removal contingency applies for any charges or arrests related to non-compliance
Yes it does.
Good question
Lx
The courts, legislatures, Prosecutors and law enforcement have all laid out a Labyrinth of legal loopholes and traps for us to navigate, fall into and drown in financial ruin.
It seems like for every victory and inch we gain, they hit back with a mile high pile of Bull*hit. I never realized the hate and disdain the opposing side has for us. Most of them do not know us individually from Adam.
The problem lies in when we threaten them and their precious registry being taken down, they see their lively hood going away. Some of them feel their life’s purpose and mission is to suppress and us and keep us down.
I wouldn’t be surprised with the ruling on not moving the line, they gain a list of those getting close to the 20 year mark and find some way to charge us with a bs charge. Even if thrown out, it is still an arrest as far as the law is concerned.
One of the reasons I do my best to stay off the radar. Although the squeaky wheel gets the oil, it also sometimes gets pushback in the form of retribution. I had that fight already with the FDLE. I won a huge reversal against them and not a few weeks after my win, I was changed from once a year registration to 4 times a year.
I am scared to challenged them again for two reasons. #1 they ran me out of money on my first successful challenge and #2 if I win again, what will they do to me next time? They kick me when I am up and kick me when I am down.
I went back last year on a petition for removal from the registry. I was released from probation in 1998. It had been about 23 years since I was done with everything. I was denied my petition because of a 2002 arrested for a registry violation. Thats the sole reason for my denial. No real law broken just violated the (non punitive registry) and was punished for it. That was in the neighboring County to this win. Its blows my mind how one judge sees it one way and another differently.
So IF this stands and ends up being an actual path to removal I’ll re apply in another year or so. Im Skeptical but hopefull. 25 years seeing law makers doing whatever the hell they want has me very reserved and slow to celebrate these wins. I love seeing these victories but am very concerned they will find another way to close this door too..
Pariah
I keep hearing about people getting registry violations. Just curious what the violation cost you in terms of a new sentence ? Probation, jail time etc??
Cherokee it was in 2002 so the lynch mob that you have today hadn’t quite developed yet. So the judge looked at it and told me in court I shouldn’t even be on it in the first place but said he was bound by the law. I ended up with about 10 days in jail and a fine of $250 and six months paper. Now its much worse. My home was broken into so I. Amm the police. Then they found out I hadn’t changed my address in the allowed time frame and arrested me if you can beleive that. Back in 2002 I didn’t own a computer and I didnt even know there was a time frame. Remeber I got off probation in 1998. So I hung myself with that BS charge. And had no clue I was even breaking a rule. Legislator didnt send email and update you on this stuff in 2002. Plus I didnt have email anyway. They said I was absconded or missing if you will. But I called them to my house. If I was running from the law id be a pretty dumb criminal to call them myself to report a robbery.. But that’s exactly how it went down. I cant make this stuff up.
It is So called “not” punishment or probation or even a sentence of any kind, and YET, we can abscond? You are right, we cannot make this stuff up.
Not even sure why lawyers even take our cases anymore as a large majority of the time, the judge sends them running with their tails between their tales. BUT, they are still happy to take our cases.
@ CherokeeJack:
Correction, they’re happy to take out MONEY. Case be damned.
I suspect there are many attorneys that are more than willing to take sex offense cases as long as the client can pay their fees, but will go to hell and back to avoid prevailing. No one wants to be “the guy that got that child molester off.” There are exceptions (those that work with FAC and ACSOL, of course), but they’re pretty few and far between.
The courts used to push for prison terms but now they push for a probation sentence. They try to avoid the cost of incarceration as that county would prefer the revenue that a probation would be paying the county. So the state doesn’t get it.
The no arrests clause is another trap other states use subsequent conversations as a measuring stick this just another way to keep people on the registry because you can be arrested for anything
2 questions…
1. If you have exceeded the 20 or even 25 year offense free time can you be removed from the registry if you move to FL.
Is FL a “risk assessed” state or a “offense” based state. I live in another state and I am Tier 3 by virtue of the offense, not by risk.
Answer to question 1: It depends on whether you are still required to register in the state of conviction and what your original offense was. If you are still required to register in the other state, you will be required to register in Florida. Also, if your offense was similar to Florida offenses that do not permit removal, then the answer is no. Also, if you are classified as a “sexual predator” under the laws of Florida or the laws of another state, the answer is again no. However, if you are no longer required to register in your state of conviction, are not designated a “sexual predator,” did not commit a “more serious offense” (for lack of a better term) that prevents removal in Florida, have not been arrested since release, and at least 25 years have passed since release (which in Florida means the end of probation or any form of supervision if it followed incarceration), then the answer is maybe. If you’re in the “maybe” category, consult a lawyer as the law is about to change for those with out-of-state offenses.
Answer to question 2: No. Florida does have tiers per se. However, in practice there are (sort of) three levels of registration. Those designated as “sexual predators” must register every 3 months for life. Those designated as sexual offenders who committed a “more serious offense” (again, for lack of a better term) must also register every 3 months for life. However, persons designated as “sexual predators” are subject to some restrictions and burdens that “sexual offenders” are not. Finally, those who have a single conviction for a “less serious offense” must register every six months for life, but this is the group that has the possibility of removal once 25 years have passed from release provided they have not been arrested for a misdemeanor of felony offense since release. Florida does not use a risk-based system; everything is based on the offense or offenses of which the person was convicted.
Has anyone actually ever even been removed from the registry under this law in Florida?
Cherokee Jack is correct. Society doesn’t want sex offenders in their mist and create these laws to keep sex offenders off of the street and out of their neighborhoods. Out of sight and out of mind. It has nothing to do with public safety. Fifty years ago, there was a “sex offender” in just about every neighborhood who lived in peace with their neighbors. The registry only creates unnecessary drama. It’s like Fate Winslow doing LWOP for selling $20 worth of marijuana. I’m tired of paying for this.
It is good to hear from you Vicki. We are dealing with an extraordinary amount of ignorance. I’m not sure this cause has enough resources to educate the public. I believe the changes will be made in the courts and the public will eventually adjust but not in our lifetime.
Yes. Several have.
Is there any case study? Trend? A common lawyer?
Ron Kleiner has handled a number of FL registry removals.
A statistically insignificant number when compared to the total number of those listed on the registry.
Hello people, I’m now 58 yea old as dirt now and I’ve been registering for 30 years. I used to study the Florida Laws on sex offenses since 1993. Now I hit 30 years of it and I’ve yet to know of anyone to get removed. I’m sure someone out their has. You got to have your ducks in line I guess. I’ve got 4 priors 3 avg batteries and a att murder 1986,87,89 charges. Then a sex offense 1993 Tampa Fl. A bad boy I was. Got married and tightened up. But with all this I’d rather have the 4 violent charges than the S.O. Charge. In 1990 DCF was pushing legislation and because they were paying for teen pregnancy millions and millions of dollars. Guys in their 20s and girls under 18 they were sick of it and so the wheel was set in motion they couldn’t get the girls to listen so they went after the guys who should leave the hail bait alone. Run run run. So they best way to do that was shame and humiliate. Still don’t know if that worked. I still see it all over tv. I am gonna give this a try soon and try to get off the registry and I don’t need a lawyer taking 5-10 thousand dollars to do something we can do. The law is the law. I’m searching some case law on the “ just a arrest “ being even constitutional. Unless your on probation or parole which limits your rights I believe someone needs to challenge that and I see no one has at least not in Florida. Even a probationers arrest alone doesn’t constitute a violation of probation it’s called preponderance of the evidence standard. You all get what I’m saying. The only reason they continue to use the arrest no one seems to want to challenge the constitutionality of it. I havent been concerned enough to challenge it but just in the last few days I’ve been researching for the first time in years I see it’s bullshit words to intimidate and keep you on the registry. Anyway take the copy of the petition I saw here and fill in the blanks and do some research. You don’t need a lawyer when your entitled to a simple petition. Stare your case and the facts.
I have a couple typos in previous msg but you can figure it out.
Kevin
No matter how many times I proof read my posts, I always end up with a typo or two. Starting to think the auto correct is alive and messes with us.
In a court room, a typo can be the difference between going free and serving a life sentence.
Hello, I have read re-read and studied the plaintiffs petition and ruled on by the the circuit Judge Larry Helms in Bartow Fl. The plaintiff filed a petition on the 9th day of sept 2019 and on the 23rd day of Nov 2020 plaintiff was denied removal from the Fla sex offender registration requirement to have to continue this registration although the Judge stated is punitive in nature. According to the judge continued registration wasn’t do to one element ( the arrest alone ) I see that his ruling was based on the fact that he was sentenced and that sentence was the fine itself. A sentence doesn’t necessarily have to be incarceration but can include a fine or other judgements set forth by the judge for that case. As on page 2 of that order as stated “Defendants 2002 (sentencing)for the battery , however renders him statutorily ineligible to petition for removal from the registry at this time”. Nowhere in the circuit Judges speech did he base this denial on an arrest in and of itself. I have always questioned the legality of any court basing any judgement based solely upon an arrest. Many people can be in the wrong place at the wrong time or found not guilty etc. So unless my volume of BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY is wrong. I think not!The surface of being arrested is vague to the common eye and their should be lawyers out here that can see that it’s more than just being arrested that would disqualify anyone from relief based on a arrest on its face. It’s unfortunate that the petitioner in the arrest of a 2001 unrelated case had to accept the fine and probably admission of a no contest in exchange for a fine which is civil in nature. Otherwise I believe the argument would be entirely different as well as the outcome. If anyone out their has anything to add to my comment feel free to do so as their is case law and controlling case law plus I can provide statutes US STATUTUES and Florida law that shows arrest alone isn’t enough and arrest alone can not be used to make a determination by the state or a judge to deny any relief to any petitioner for any motion or any relief. Their must be a second element and that, that element must show by the preponderance of the evidence standard that a crime had been committed. My point is if you were charged since your being released from custody care and or control yet you were arrested for a baseless crime for which was dropped dismissed or found not guilty then take it to court, as long as you meet the 20 year registration timeline and your charge was before oct 1 2007 and 25 years if your charge was on or after said date. You don’t need a lawyer because you can take the facts of law with you. It’s a simple process that they make seem difficult. You only need to state two things do you meet the 20 or 25 year timeline and second did your arrest within those timelines result in a conviction? I wouldn’t go in their with a second nasty sex charge that was thrown out because you have a serious problem and in that case I have nothing to say to those looking for relief of any type. I’m speaking to a certain class that screwed up in their 20s with jail bait but didn’t fall into the 4 year Romio and Juliet law. Have a great day.
This is a point that motivates me and motivates other people who are not on the registry, is what we get for our tax dollars.
As long as registrants see this only as how the registry affects them, they are spinning their wheels. They can create these websites and cry on each others shoulders and hold up signs saying “the registry is unfair” and it doesn’t resonate with the public.
They need to tell people, “O.K., if you won’t let me work, I will collect food stamps, social security and welfare. I hope you pay your taxes so you can support me”. I’m tired of paying for this crap and I’m sure there are a lot of other people who are tired of paying for it too. We just need to get the word out that the registry affects them too.
Holding up signs saying “the registry is unfair” gets no traction with the general public.
Holding up signs that say, “thank you for supporting sex offenders. Keep paying your taxes” gets the point across.
It’s good to hear that some are getting off of the registry with this law.
This law appears quite complex and I’m sure too confusing for a lot of people. Is there a possibility FAC could publish a pamphlet on this?
Pariah.001:
Your story is not unusual. You are paying for this. I am paying for this. And everyone who pays taxes is paying for this. This is why all the proregistry morons need to be educated. Let all these people that support the registry pay for it and keep all the other taxpayers out of it.
Question…is failing to register an “offense”? If you “do nothing” or “forget”, in a sex offenders case it is a crime,but is it an offense? If you forgot to register, there really is no way it can be said you offended. You can’t offend by doing nothing. Am I right or no?
Ken
All I can say on this is there has been several stories on this site where someone has been arrested for failing to register. It says right on the paperwork that it is an offense according to the statues. I do not know where you live so I can only speak for Florida.
Read your registration paperwork to see what it says.
Failing to register is a 2nd degree felony.
I had one but it never even made it to arraignment, the county filed a no information. Never even made it to plea or anything. They didn not pursue the case at all. How is that even looked at. I was never even indicted and they dropped everything. I cant get off?
Unfortunately, the statute says that there can’t be any arrests. It doesn’t say you have to be convicted or even charged so, while I hope that someone challenges the “arrest” part of the statute, that is currently the law. That said, I was fortunate enough to fall under the 20-year rule and was blessed to find Ron Kleiner who successfully petitioned to have me removed from the “List”. I would encourage you to reach out to Ron and ask his advice. I will tell you that before we petitioned under the 20-year rule, Ron told me that if we were denied and the Court said that the 25-year rule applied, he would re-file and represent me at no additional cost for the hearing.
This depends are which part of the statue you violate. Not Every Failure to Register is a second degree felony. Most are 3rd Degree.
In Florida, all registry violations under state law are third degree felonies save one: failing to report to the sheriff within 48 hours of not leaving the state once out-of-state travel (i.e., a permanent or temporary address out of state) has been reported. Why they chose to make this a second degree felony when all other registry violations are a third degree felony is beyond me. Maybe the extra possible 10 years in prison are for inconveniencing the other state (who knows…)
Under Federal SORNA, a first violation has a punishment range of 1 to 10 years in prison, unless there are aggravating factors. If the failure to register under Federal SORNA involves the use of a firearm or commission of a violent crime, the violation carries a potential maximum of 30 years in prison. Under Federal SORNA, the registration violation must occur during the individual’s required registration period, which is 15 years for Tier I offenders or 25 years for Tier II offenders (Federal Tier III is life if the conviction was as an adult) from release, which is defined differently in Federal SORNA than in Florida state law.
Now that the Second DCA en banc in State vs. Crose has confirmed that an offender on probation is not subject to 943.0435, its time for someone who registered while on probation and has completed their sentence over 25 years ago, to ask for removal by arguing that the registration period on probation should count toward the 25 years since they registered but were not required to do so.
So after reading and rereading the decision out of the 10th Circuit, the judge says, “It is therefore Ordered and Adjudged that the Defendants petiition is Denied Without Prejudice. So long as the Dendant remains arrest-free, defendant may re-petition for removal from the sexual offender registry after twenty years have passed since his Janauary 2002, CONVICTION ……”
So my question is this: Is it 20 years after conviction? or 20 years after sentence complettion?
20 years after all sanctions have been completed. Prison, house arrest, probation, parole. Once you are off paper, and 20 years have passed from the final sanction, you can petition for removal at the judge’s discretion.
Like judges that sentenced us, depending on what judge you get, depends on your chances. Supposedly if you get denied, you can re-petition at 5 years later, but that would be 25 years which is what it was changed to anyway. Still no guarantee even then.
I am eligible myself but don’t have the funds to do so.
I hear what you are saying if you read the ruling it’s say 20 years after conviction idk possible loophole
Tear
is that Florida or Federal or another state?
Can you send me / all of us that link where it says after conviction? If so I should have been off 13 years ago
It is up the article it was state court I believe 10th circuit out of Polk county
A ruling that said 20 years from ‘conviction,’ does not change the statute.
20 years begins after date of the conviction of the offense. Not from the date of release from a facility and not from sanctions due to fines. SATE OF CONVICTION.
Why isn’t FAC jumping on this???
I was told by the attorney FAC recommended and from a FAC posting that is starts from the day of the end of your sentence and all sanctions are ended. If it was just 20 past conviction I should have been able to apply 10 years ago. So which is it.
We cannot have dueling information here.
The ‘conviction’ language in the ruling does not change the statute.
Good point, if this is true probation time would be included for people prior to 2007. It says a chance to partition for relief but it still might not be granted so who wants to test this?
I’ll test it who was his attorney?
Law office of Ron M. Kleiner
It is 20 years after you are off paper, with no arrests in those 20 years whatsoever.
@Tony – true, but only if you became off paper before the 2007 statute change from 20 to 25 years. According to attorney Ron Kleiner (our recommended early-term guy), the finish line CAN be moved if it was moved while you were still on paper. This inequity between those who were released from sanctions before the change vs. those still on paper completely supports the fact that the registry is punishment. After all, are those who have managed to get through all of their sanctions less dangerous than those on probation?
I got off paper in 2003 and I had Ron, not eligible until 2023 per Ron even though my incident was in 1991, 33 years ago. I showed these post to Ron and he said that it is 20 years after you are off paper, but now it is 25 years and under dispute.
I now am waiting 4 more years for 25 in which time, some judge will move it to 30 years. It is called kick the can down the road.
Ok. Maybe I can help some people understand what’s going on with this subject and maybe even help save them some money for even trying to get off registry. I got off paper in January of 2000 for a lewd and lascivious charge, adjudication withheld. In January of 2002 I got arrested for not reporting my new address in time, because I had moved residences, Adjudication withheld again. Wasn’t put on probation or anything, just paid a fine and it was over. All this in Hillsborough County by the way. So in January of 2020 my attorney and I go in front of Judge Wolf of Hillsborough county and he tells me that if I stay out of trouble , that means no arrests whatsoever, that I could come back in January of 2022 and be removed from the registry, because the ADA from the county didn’t challenge the decision. Well the 2 years went by, I stayed out of trouble, by the way the only time I got arrested again was the not reporting address change in 2002. So, January 15 of 2022 came around and we go in front of a new judge. I’m expecting this removal of registry to go my way because I stayed out of trouble with no arrest. Well now the ADA wants to challenge the removal because I got arrested in 2002. And so the judge adjourns for about 30 minutes to her chambers. When she comes back out, she tells my attorney and me that because the law states if the defendant is arrested for ANY reason whatsoever, doesn’t matter if it’s misdemeanor or felony, that it would void my petition for removal, no matter how long I am on the registry. I could be arrest free for 50 years, still can’t get off the registry because of that one arrest in 2002. So I hope I cleared up some questions for some of you. Maybe even saved you some money for paying for an attorney for trying. Unless you are squeeky clean, remain arrest free, is only chance to possible removal of Registry. I can say though, that judge did say to me, on record, she said in her own words, if there was any way, if she was queen of the world, she would release me from Registry today! But she has to follow the letter of the law.
So anyone who was arrested for their original offense, cannot be removed from the registry, is the logic here.
See now i dont know. I got taken in on a ftr but they dropped the charges filed a no information. Didnt get arraigned or even get to court or anything. They just filed a no information and that was it. Said it was so i can petition. I cant afford to lose money on trying. It was federal and only probation and off paper for 22 years and off my home states list and was never published anyway.
Gosh this is so just confusing. So i understand that a no information is pretty much a no crime committed BUT it was the corrections captain that input me into the offender database when i was taken in. I had airline tickets to my home the next day anyway. Missed the flight of course. Never saw a judge on this (just a first appearance thing) or got any order to do anything. Just got a no information after all that drama. Figured im on the list forever and just stayed. Never really had a “process “
I finished my probation in 96. Never arrested for any crime since 1990 since my offense. This means I can petition to be removed? If so is there an offordable attorney? I am broke!
Persons such as Reformed would be advised to consult with Ron Kleiner on FAC’s attorney referral page. He is not free, however.
I was pretty bummed today when Mr. Kleiner told me that I’m not eligible for the 20-year registration ‘relief’ because my probation was not terminated prior to the 2007 statute that changed the period to 25 years. So, although I’ve been on the registry since 1998, I’m subject to the 25-year rule because my probation didn’t end before the time period was extended in 2007. Every time I think I can’t get more pissed off about this bs, it still happens.
I’m no lawyer, but It seems to me that (if you took a plea) making such a change would violate the plea agreement (essentially a contract?). The point being is that with a plea an individual and the state agree to a specific set of terms that are deemed to be mutually acceptable. I would think that the state unilaterally applying this modification would constitute a violation of that contract. Did Kleiner say anything about this?
The great Richard Gladden made a similar argument before the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit and lost.
Just because the state imposes statutory regulations on you, does not mean it had to have been contained in a plea agreement.
And for many Florida registrants, the State of Florida was not even a party to their plea agreement.
No, he didn’t. Our email exchange was pretty brief. Clearly, the early termination rule that was in effect at the time of sentencing (or even more properly, the time the ‘crime’ was committed) is what should apply.
Ray and Jacob, thanks for the responses. Ray, I agree that the state shouldn’t be able to change the rules in the middle of the game, so to speak. Jacob, perhaps another test of this issue will eventually prevail. We can always hope.
Not even just a plea. Guys like me were arrested before the registry even existed in Florida. I did not even know about it and it did not even go into effect until the week I was released, how convenient, or as the Church lady on SNL says “Well isn’t that special”.
Nothing like retroactively “Re-punishing” people years after their offense occurred.
Reformed
Although if you have the money it is worth doing it. The only problem is there is no money back guarantee you will be granted relief. The judge has the final say unless a higher power from above intercedes.
Even then, I heard if you get denied, you can re-petition again 5 years after a denial. When it is my time I will be borrowing money from my 401K.
I would like to provide you with some information on this. I am a registrant (1991 crime / 2005 release from supervision). I had been patiently waiting to petition the courts to be removed from the registry. I reached out to attorney Ron M. Kleiner to see about how getting the process started as at the time I was under a month before the 20 year mark and I know that it takes a few weeks to get a case in front of a judge.
Needless to say, what he told me was disappointing, but it’s not his fault, it’s just the system.
This was Mr. Kleiner’s response to my e-mail:
———————————
I can most likely help you if you are arrest free for the last 20
years – i see that your conviction is in XXXXXX, i also assume you
still live there.
Here is the situation right now in XXXXXXXXXX : We won a case a couple of years ago on the applicability of the 20 year statute. The State
has appealed, and i have been waiting since July for an opinion from
the 3rd DCA in Miami.
Judges are not hearing these cases right now until this appeal is
decided. I have several clients awaiting the outcome of this appeal.
Of course if the decision of the Trial court is affirmed, or if
affirmed with a written opinion, I would be more than happy to assist
you in getting your name removed from the registry.
I will keep your information and let you know as soon as the case is
decided in the appellate court.
Thank you very much for your interest.
———————————
I asked Mr. Kleiner which case was the one in question and it’s the one in this post. I will not post the name of the litigant / case number as if it was redacted here on the post and attachment.
Thought I would pass this along.