First published at NARSOL: Awesome victory in Montana
By Larry of NARSOL
On June 14, 2023, a court decided the question of whether a “retroactive application of the Sexual or Violent Offender Registration Act violated the prohibition against ex post facto punishment in Article II, Section 31 of the Montana Constitution.”
Larry says that “states appear to be unable to help themselves, continually piling on more requirements that transform what was originally a relatively benign regulatory system into something clearly punitive.”
As difficult as it has been for people on the sex offender registry to live with a growing number of harsh and punitive regulations, the silver lining is that states are turning what was once considered nonpunitive regulations in the late 90’s into a system of unconstitutional and inhumane laws. Even FDLE has warned our Florida Legislators in Tallahassee that if more registry requirements are added, courts will most assuredly start ruling the whole registry is unconstitutional – a fact that we already know to be true.
As so often has happened in the past, in 2003 the Montana Supreme Court issued a decision that Montana’s Sexual or Violent Offender Registration Act was not punitive. This same court has ruled this summer that registrants are being “placed under a probationary surveillance system in perpetuity which is designed to facilitate social ostracism.”
Thank you, Larry, for keeping everyone updated on this recent win.
Is there documentation that shows that FDLE warned the legislature?
I was removed from the registry over 20 years ago in NJ. My case was closed there,but after moving to Florida I was forced back on it for life (because if ever convicted in another state under their laws you must be registered for life in Fl). Now police show up at my doorstep every 2 months, and all the neighbors see this. Neighbors keep asking questions but they do not understand.
Howard >> Where were you in Jersey? ADTC? Were you retroactive? Did you go through M.L. tier system? I’m fighting them now for putting me on the public side of it. I’m a NJ ML Retroactive Tier 1. I’m one of the 1172 were were placed on it who were before the laws. I was also one of the 52 who challenged the prosecutor an earned a tier level reduction by the court. You can’t grant Due Process hand down a judgement then have it taken away 2 years later because they have a new law.
You can find the vacation rental analysis for 2022 somewhere around pages 15-16 at:
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=h0325.RRS.DOCX&DocumentType=Analysis&BillNumber=0325&Session=2022
For 2023, somewhere around pages 15-16:
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=h0325.RRS.DOCX&DocumentType=Analysis&BillNumber=0325&Session=2022
When they talk about probation vs. civil, how in any judge’s mind does people not on probation having Sheriff’s, City police, state police and in my case, the FDLE agents coming to my door? Are they there because they are lonely and want to come in for tea and cookies?
Name any other citizens in the U.S.A that has law enforcement come to your door 4 or more times a year when you are not on probation? This is harassment and causes great harm and embarrassment when nosey neighbors come over wanting to know why so many cops come to our door.
The ones that come to my door are in full on Tactical gear military gear, flak jacket bullet proof vests and all. There is nothing normal about that unless you are wanted, or still on probation or house arrest.
Anyone who has successfully done their time should be left alone.
I’ve been on the registration for almost thirty years in Fl. It was still after my conviction. It really is punishment, it went beyond non punitive a long time ago. I agree that the police showing up all the time is is totally unfair.
Larry Robinson I’ve been on it from the start of it back in Nov. 1994. I’m a retroactive from New Jersey. I’m one of the first 1172 to be put on the registry first so I feel ya. We fought it in Doe vs Poritz the first court rulings. The Prosecutors insisted it was not an extension of punishment an the courts agreed with them. They ruled that even though it is not an extension of punishment the state had to provide Due Process. Even with that it’s become an extension of punishment in the wide open.
@Allan
We have all seen a few stories of Registered persons being attacked and, on a few occasions, murdered. I do not know about you, but being killed is the ultimate punishment don’t you think?
Let go a little lower down, House broken into, car tires slashed, feces thrown on cars and house, fire start on tree in front yard, baby diapers thrown in driveway, vehicles vandalized, slurs yelled at us/me, Fake deputy getting my private phone # and telling me I failed to register.
I have more but what is the point. I am preaching to the choir and the courts that wear earmuffs and blinders, all while saying it is nothing any other reasonable person has to endure. (Ok that one made me laugh)
I think they are pushing me for a legal fight. Even the FBI is stupid an doesn’t realize that what they have done was create an extension of punishment on this ACT that the NJSC said that the Megans Law is not an extension of punishment. WELL NOW IT IS!!! You can’t hand down a judgement that says “not for public notification” then turn around and use a NEW LAW to enforce it on the public registry.
@Larry
I am right there with you brother. Incident happened in 1991 and here we are almost in 2024.
I was added in 1997 the week I was released from prison. I had to visit the probation office and got my release mug shot and my ceremonial registry glamor shot.
We are all famous, but for the wrong reasons. I do not mind the exit photo from prison that stays on their site forever. But the probation like standards we have to follow are not required by any other group that is no longer on probation.
They keep calling it civil. Well then make it fair and make every ex felon for every crime start registering every 90 days and I bet that would last a week and they would shut it down. (Not allowed to type what would happen if they implemented that.)
And no, I am not calling on them to do that, just showing how unfair and unconstitutional (My opinion) the registry is.
Any victory that helps people get on with their lives is a win. We need to bring injustices to the front of our fight. Every one of them is an extension of punishment. Most Law Enforcement know that 85% shouldn’t even be on this and the other 15% just give them shit because it’s bullshit. Get ready cause 2024 is gonna be our year.
@Allan
All I can do is give it to God. When the time is right for one, 10 or all of us to be removed, then we can rejoice and actually become productive citizens again.
I mean I have no problem still holding the Ex-Felon moniker. Yes you can go on the department of corrections website and see everyone’s history but nobody ever does that. The registry pages are specifically meant to cause chaos and fear that is unjustified.
People who have known me since I was a kid won’t talk to me because of one stupid incident 40 years ago.
Now Cherokee you know who gets the victory. So Alan and others say they have been on the registry for say a decade or double. I have been on it since 2012 and still am. As the pretensious detective told me. I know what I did and I know how I did it. How suggestive!
So if two wrongs don’t make a right what makes a right. People standing up for justice. God is a God of truth and justice. Now people can go with the “Home boy” attitude, get some gospel pouring thru your vain, or just sit and sulk in the mud.
Oh and by the way do you have any other pictures.. suggestive yes, Oh and I want a milkshake, All part of the game. Character or – who brings out the beast in another. So who wins in a situation falsehood challenge? Should we all say Let God be true and every man a liar.
@Saddles
I have been on the registry since 1997.
Incident from 1991, arrested 1992, sentenced 1993.
Put on registry in 1997 retroactively, even though there was no registry when I was sentenced. I would have fought like Hell if I knew I was going to be sent to prison AND be on a registry.
I might have even moved to a deserted island.
CherokeeJack >>> You and me both! I can’t go into details but I’m sure now they don’t want this to go into a court. Being retroactive did you have Due Process? In NJ under John Doe vs Poritz and affirmed by the 3rd Cir. in E.B. vs Verniero Anyone convicted before 9/13/1994 ( sentenced 571 days b4 the VCC ) were required to have a court hearing on our Tier level if we wanted to challenge the Prosecutors assessment. This is what put me into the B52 group as I was one of the 52 retroactive who challenged an earned a tier level reduction by the courts. I’m looking for anyone from NJ who is a Tier Level 1 from NJ convicted before the VCC who is on the public registry.
Allan
I am in Florida. No tiers Per se, but in a round about way we do. They make stuff up as they go along. And instead of giving us a path to redemption, they add on more and more punitive (Not according to the lawmakers) regulations we have to follow.
If I do not register, I go to prison. Someone shot my windows out and I got a license plate # and the police told me to “File a report online”. I made them send out deputies who filed the report and never got a follow up from a detective. This was way before they were shorthanded on cops.
Florida has clearly demonstrated they not only intend but implement this to be punishment. I have never met anybody at the Sheriffs office that didn’t think this was and even express how it wastes time and makes them paper pushers. I would go as far to say I have had officers instruct me how to Travel and get around many of the stupid reporting in a legal way of course. Actually had one tell me to cruise or boat and get off to get into a country I wanted to visit!
Not going to say where I register at but, You basically do a drive by and they throw the paper at you and say “hope you don’t come back” LOL Surprised they don’t open a drive through window.
I was shocked that they would complain to us about how they hate doing the registrations like it is a punishment for employees who they have no other place to put them.
Now when I lived in Seminole county, they loved making grown men cry. The first time I had to register there, I walked outside and puked. 2 hour private interrogation in a back room. As soon as my probation was over, I was out of there like a squirrel being chased by a dog.
The reasoning was used that because of the extra add on requirements to the registry this is what makes the original registry punitive when it originally was not. But I say even more so what makes it more punitive is the fact that the internet now is nothing like it was in 1994 or even 2003. It’s 1000 times more invasive because of the expansion of use , accessibility and need as a basic requirement in today’s world. There is no comparison.
@DavidM
Because of the registry expansion, notifications, and sites like Nextdoor, I have lost neighbors, friends (At least I thought they were friends) and even some family members who avoid me when we get together at Christmas time which is uncomfortable. I always feel like the elephant in room.
Seems every legislation, they push the envelope just over line enough to where they think we won’t notice. Silly things like no hanging holiday decorations, as if doing so, we are luring children to be dragged into our basements. Even worse, even those that did not have an underaged victim were forced to comply with these new laws like living close to a school or day care.
Where I live, there is a school on every corner and to make it worse, many of the churches have school and day care during the week.
They tried to make me move once but I was here before the ordinance and my lawyer smacked them upside the head (Symbolically)
From what I could find in the 9th circuit which covers Montana you have I believe 60 days to file an appeal to the district court, does anyone know if the state appealed this decision? I looked and could not find anything his Case #: DA 20-0197 if anyone has a pacer account it might give the update if there is an appeal. And if so the 9th covers Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington. So an appeal here would be huge In potential ramifications.
Here were oral arguments https://youtu.be/zGQ5gJ0LMnQ
Replace Montana with Florida and it’s word for word what’s happening here as well.
I just the whole thing and it was awesome. The Supreme Court of Montana shredded all attempts of the state to justify their registry. It was beautiful
I just tried to save the oral arguments video to my save for later and couldn’t because YouTube has it marked as “made for children” which limits things like saving or commenting on the video. I’ve never encountered that on a video of this kind before and find it very odd. I mean in what way is this video made for children. There’s just something off about the video being classified in this way imo
” Even FDLE has warned our Florida Legislators in Tallahassee that if more registry requirements are added, courts will most assuredly start ruling the whole registry is unconstitutional ”
Even Abraham Lincoln said it : ” The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly ”
The rule of law suffers when we have too many laws.
https://www.registrymatters.co/podcast/rm274-exposing-svoras-secrets-the-montana-supreme-court-verdict/
With Guy Hamilton-Smith on as a guest
I wish he would have talked more about the cases he is currently working on.
This Montanan ordeal has a good ring to it and a hope for many. Their is a new word that authorities and leaders take for granted. One can call it subverting Justice. Sure many can reach into the good book and see how kings and leaders subvert justice.
We are all cardinal by nature. Even those authorities that push, provoke, etc in much of this sex registry to get one under their thumb. Call it fraud or trickery or getting over on others for promotional reasons or other reasons such as “its for public safety”. Setting another up for a fall is the worst thing anyone can do to another.
https://dailymontanan.com/2023/11/05/montana-supreme-court-retroactive-punishment-for-sexual-violent-offenders-is-unconstitutional/
Update I guess??