FDLE Replies to domestic travel inquiry
The FDLE has replied to FAC’s request for clarification on domestic travel. Several members have been MISINFORMED by their registration offices that anytime they leave the state of Florida they are required to report. The FDLE’s website also had this incorrect information in their Q&A section. Last month FAC reached out to the FDLE, seeking clarification and today we received their response.
Registrants DO NOT need to report when leaving the State. Only when establishing a permanent, temporary or transient residence in another state. If your local Sheriff’s office still requires you to provide notice when leaving the State, please let FAC know.
FAC appreciates FDLE’s response and taking action to correct their website.
A copy of the correspondence is below.
From: Sexual Predator Unit <SexPredator@fdle.state.fl.us>
Date: July 14, 2022 at 12:22:31 PM EDT
To: Gail Colletta
Subject: RE: Letter to FDLE Domestic Travel
Good afternoon,
Thank you for your inquiry.
Per Florida Statutes 943.0435(7) and 775.21(6)(i), a sexual offender or predator who intends to establish a permanent, temporary, or transient residence in another state or jurisdiction other than the State of Florida shall report in person to the sheriff of the county of current residence within 48 hours before the date he or she intends to leave this state to establish residence in another state or jurisdiction or at least 21 days before the date he or she intends to travel if the intended residence of 5 days or more is outside of the United States. Any travel that is not known by the sexual offender 21 days before the departure date must be reported in person to the sheriff’s office as soon as possible before departure. The sexual offender or predator shall provide to the sheriff the address, municipality, county, state, and country of intended residence. For international travel, the sexual offender or predator shall also provide travel information, including, but not limited to, expected departure and return dates, flight number, airport of departure, cruise port of departure, or any other means of intended travel.
There is no language in s. 943.0435, F.S. or s. 775.21, F.S. requiring an offender or predator who has registered as required to report domestic travel to another state if they will not establish a residency outside of Florida.
Florida Statute 775.21 defines a “permanent residence” as a place where the person abides, lodges, or resides for three or more consecutive days, and “temporary residence” as a place where the person abides, lodges, or resides, including, but not limited to, vacation, business, or personal travel destinations in or out of this state, for a period of three or more days in the aggregate during any calendar year and which is not the person’s permanent address or, for a person whose permanent residence is not in this state, a place where the person is employed, practices a vocation, or is enrolled as a student for any period of time in this state. “Transient residence” means a county where a person lives, remains, or is located for a period of three or more days in the aggregate during a calendar year and which is not the person’s permanent or temporary address. The term includes, but is not limited to, a place where the person sleeps or seeks shelter and a location that has no specific street address.
We will review the information on our website and update it as appropriate.
Sincerely,
| Enforcement & Investigative Support
Florida Department of Law Enforcement |
|
| sexpred@fdle.state.fl.us
1-888-357-7332 850-410-8599 (fax) |
PO Box 1489
Tallahassee, FL 32302-1489 |
PLEASE NOTE: Florida has a very broad public records law. Most written communications to or from state officials regarding state business are considered to be public records and will be made available to the public and the media upon request. Your e-mail messages may, therefore, be subject to public disclosure.
From: Gail Colletta
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 2:36 PM
To: Sexual Predator Unit <SexPredator@fdle.state.fl.us>
Subject: Letter to FDLE Domestic Travel
| CAUTION: This email originated outside of FDLE. Please use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email. |
To : SexPredator@fdle.state.fl.us
Subject: Domestic Travel
To whom it may concern:
I am President of the Florida Action Committee (FAC), a 2500+ member not-for-profit organization whose focus is on public safety and specifically the Florida Sex Offender Registry.
I had previously written concerning domestic travel for those on the registry. Our members were being advised by their County registration office that any travel from Florida to another state requires in person notification. We did not believe this to be true, so we contacted your department for guidance. In your reply, you advised that, “There is no language in s. 943.0435, F.S. or s. 775.21, F.S. requiring an offender or predator who has registered as required to report domestic travel to another state if they will not establish a residency outside of Florida.” A copy of your email is below.
Notwithstanding this clarification, we continue to be informed by members that their local registration offices are requiring they report, in person, whenever they leave the state, even crossing into Georgia or Alabama and returning the same day. Further, on the FAQ section of your website (https://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/sops/faq.jsf), you write that, “A sexual offender/predator planning to travel to other states within the U.S. must report in person to the sheriff of the county where he or she currently resides in Florida within 48 hours before the date he or she intends to leave Florida;” This seems to be in direct conflict with your earlier guidance. We know of no changes to s. 943.0435, F.S. or s. 775.21, F.S. between May 3, 2018 and today, that would require notification of “travel” or “leaving the state”.
Please reply to this email letting us know what the law requires and whether to rely on the information provided on your website or in your earlier email. If your earlier email is correct and there is no requirement for a registrant to report domestic travel if they will not establish a residency outside of Florida, we respectfully request you correct your website to avoid confusion. If the law now requires registrants to report domestic travel even if they will not establish a residency outside of Florida, kindly provide us with a reference to the new Statute.
Sincerely,
Gail Colleta, President
Florida Action Commitee
From: Sexual Predator Unit <SexPredator@fdle.state.fl.us>
Date: May 3, 2018 at 2:15:04 PM EDT
To: ‘gail’
Subject: RE: Letter to FDLE RE: Domestic Travel
Good afternoon,
Per Florida Statutes 943.0435(7) and 775.21(6)(i), a sexual offender or predator who intends to establish a permanent, temporary, or transient residence in another state or jurisdiction other than the State of Florida shall report in person to the sheriff of the county of current residence within 48 hours before the date he or she intends to leave this state to establish residence in another state or jurisdiction or at least 21 days before the date he or she intends to travel if the intended residence of 5 days or more is outside of the United States. Any travel that is not known by the sexual offender 21 days before the departure date must be reported in person to the sheriff’s office as soon as possible before departure. The sexual offender or predator shall provide to the sheriff the address, municipality, county, state, and country of intended residence. For international travel, the sexual offender or predator shall also provide travel information, including, but not limited to, expected departure and return dates, flight number, airport of departure, cruise port of departure, or any other means of intended travel.
There is no language in s. 943.0435, F.S. or s. 775.21, F.S. requiring an offender or predator who has registered as required to report domestic travel to another state if they will not establish a residency outside of Florida. The definitions of permanent, temporary, and transient residency can be located in s. 775.21(2)(k), (n), & (o), F.S. As you noted in your letter, these definitions will change from 5 days to 3 days effective July 1, 2018.
Sincerely,
| Missing Persons & Offender Registration
Florida Department of Law Enforcement |
|
| sexpred@fdle.state.fl.us
1-888-357-7332 850-410-8599 (fax) |
PO Box 1489
Tallahassee, FL 32302-1489 |
PLEASE NOTE: Florida has a very broad public records law. Most written communications to or from state officials regarding state business are considered to be public records and will be made available to the public and the media upon request. Your e-mail messages may, therefore, be subject to public disclosure.
One of the things that makes FAC invaluable is how you work behind the scenes to get the attention of law enforcement agencies and protect registrants from compliance snafus.
Thank you!
(Now if we can just get them to define “day”!)
Hello Jacob
You posted on July 14th (Now if we can just get them to define “day”!)
In May 2018 FAC sent a letter to FDLE concerning a clarification about emergency situations.
This is a is a statement from the response letter from FDLE concerning a day. Sent to FAC July 12, 2018
“In response to your last inquiry regarding the word “days”, although the statutes contain no definition of the term “day”, in those instances where the Legislature has used words of common usage, such words should be construed in their plain and ordinary sense”
FAC in their post to members said.
“So the guidance from FDLE is:”…
“b. The common definition of “day”, according to Webster’s dictionary is
“the mean solar day of 24 hours beginning at midnight”
FAC goes on to say.
“While the guidance is not completely clarifying as to what a “day” is considered and they qualify it by suggesting we discuss it with our attorney or legal representative. Based on what they write , and a “day comprising of a 24 hour period beginning at midnight”, a period of less than 24 hours (i.e.: you arrive on Friday at 6AM or you depart on Sunday at 11 PM) would suggest you have not been at the “residence” for that “day” if you were not there for the full 24 hours comprising that day.”
We have to admit that FAC does a great job in trying to get information to us!! Thanks FAC
Respectively
Sailtime
PLEASE DO NOT RELY ON AN FAC INTERPRETATION. FAC is NOT a law firm, we are not licensed nor qualified to provide any legal opinion and our interpretation of the meaning of “day” based on Webster’s dictionary is NOT authority.
If you read the pleadings in the Ex Post Facto case even FDLE employees had different interpretations of the meaning of “day”.
Sounds like a clear case of a statute being “void for vagueness” to me. However, that won’t be resolved until someone is prosecuted and has standing to raise the issue. So a person must be subjected to the agony of a criminal prosecution before that ambiguity can be addressed. As we all know, even gaining an acquittal can be devistating. This is why I have no intention of ever setting foot in Florida.
The criminal justice system ain’t broken. It’s fixed.
Or until there is a disposition in the Ex Post Facto Plus case that is currently being litigated and that we’ve written about extensively.
This is part of that case.
FAC, y’all addressed the vagueness issue in an excellent Motion for Reconsideration.
Did the court deny that motion, or are we just waiting on it?
https://floridaactioncommittee.org/motion-for-reconsideration-of-dismissal-of-vagueness-claim-filed-in-epf-ii/
Denied, but the irony is that Judge Hinkle used Travel as an illustration of his problem with the requirements and that’s where this “day” thing lies. No matter which avenue it takes to get there, hopefully this will be resolved.
This definition issue of what “day” means may be significant in other areas of confusion of communicarion with fdle. Namely the issue of resistering travel docs before travel and changing permanent addess on drivers licence before travel and conversly changing it back after returning from travel. Could it be that fdle officers including the ladies have different understandings of the definitions’ something to ponder. Ed c makes good point also
Thank You FAC!!! Especially to Gail!!! I have been following the guidelines of the 2018 letter. But it is good to have this refresher
Sailtime
I would like to see a copy of the 2018 letter, where can I obtain same?
Scroll down in the post.
As a follow up, maybe we can clarify other states, such a Georgia, and what their requirements are? I had heard Georgia was 1 day for residency for registered persons, but that sounds ludicrous. Also, every time I register I’m asked if I’m leaving the state for any reason.
We have our hands full with Florida requirements. There are similar organizations in other states. Georgia likely has one that can provide that information.
You can also search for Georgia’s registration statute and you will find that what you heard was completely inaccurate. The law is here: https://gbi.georgia.gov/42-1-12-state-sexual-offender-registry and the relevant portion is here:
(e) Registration pursuant to this Code section shall be required by any individual who:
I’ve always had to and had to carry the ” travel paperwork” with me when ever I went out of State…Went to a Wedding in Michigan over the weekend.
Thank you for this information. Pinellas County sheriff‘s office was telling me that if you leave your permanent residence for three or more days to go anywhere, you have to register where you’re going regardless of how long you plan to stay there. I knew that wasn’t correct, but why would you challenge them. They will arrest you throw you in jail and even if you are found innocent, you’ve still screwed any chance of getting removed from the registry because you would have been arrested for a felony or misdemeanor and that is all that it takes.
JoeM not sure who you are dealing with but I have found them to be very professional and easy to deal with if you also deal well with them. This is for the men and Woman who they have working at the SPOT office. I have never had a issue with Travel as long as you follow the law. Are you on Probation? If not you can leave your Residence for 3 or More days just follow the Law do not stay in any 1 place for more then 3 days. A trip to Miami for example south Beach for a couple nights then a couple days at The Hard Rock In Ft Lauderdale etc. These are also in Different Florida Counties. Make sure you do you required in Person Registration. I dont know all your specifics but something doesnt seem correct based on my decade plus experience. How often do they come to your House? How would they know when you are away?. Thanks
I know when I register the sheriff’s office ask the same thing. During one visit the officer bragged about them following a truck driver out of state and arrested him because he didn’t follow the exact route he told them. The reason that was brought up was because I was considering a truck driving career but after hearing that and having to register and pay everytime I would make a route I decided never to leave florida. I didn’t even goto my grandmothers funeral because the out of state issue.
Seriously??: “SexPredator @FDLE”??😡
They couldn’t just have “SORegistration@FDLE” or “SOR_Questions@FDLE”?? 🤷🏻♂️
What if you’re only a Sex Offender”, but not a ” Sex Predator” – then who do you email?? 😳
Leave it to Florida and FDLE, where everyone is – by default – a “Predator”. 🙄😒
David In Cali! Yes they even put that on the FDLE notices at top!
Florida Department of Law Enforcement – Sexual Offender / Predator Flyer
Regardless what your status is 🙁
It is the Terminologies Used Etc…
It would take both State and Federal Jurisdictional Defamations Law Suits to Curtail the Terminologies that are used on State/Federal Jurisdiction Documents…that would be a waste of time and monies….
WE ALL KNOW THAT
The Focus, as always, should be Forward Progressions, they may be slow, BUT there are making progess
Everyone…it is frustrating to all…BUT…the latest “TEST” was verified and validated by the fdle…that takes a TEAM!
Well, that’s in line with when the registry was first launched, they had the word in all caps DANGER! with sirens flashing on both sides of your head. This who.e thing is nothing g more than a joke to them, and I’m positive they laugh about it at the water cooler
I have travelled out side the state of Florida several times and have ALWAYS been required to state departure dare, return date, Location address of where I will be going to stay and copies of all hotel reservations, plave or train tickets etc.
I go to the sheriffs office in Daytona that is located at “Volusia County Sheriff’s Office Operations” 1330 indian lake Road.
In the past I have notiv=ced that dependinbg on which “woman behind tyhe glass” I get diffreent answers. The was a Seargeant or deputy Lee and I have talked to hom in the past. Is he still there.
Would the Sheriffs office be able to print a card or notice clairing this irregularity.
Regards
Robert, I share your pain. I lived in Daytona and dealt with the ladies behind the tinted glass. I got different attitudes and information, but was always threatened with registry violations. So I don’t think that it’s
likely that you’ll get much cooperation. I don’t know if contacting probation in Volusia County would help. As far as I know, Sgt. LEE retired.
Hello Bob, this is Ed D. Lee is no longer there. It is now a guy named Childer.
I always wondered how people forced to registering works for living aboard their own boats at marinas or Florida waterways. Is it considered a transient residence if I own my own home but tie up at a marina or anchor out in the gulf of Mexico? Hillsborough SO refused to answer the question.
Just a thought maybe one of us or a team effort from FAC would be to send a copy Via USMAIL (Hell I would send it certified) of the FDLE letter to each Florida Sheriff’s Office to maybe open the eyes of the Ignorant ones ignoring it and have some clear proof of notice to avoid such problems. The law is the Law but it just puts them on notice to stop playing games as some of the small town boys like to do.
Please contact membership@floridaactioncommittee.org to volunteer to spearhead this effort.
Hi, how about getting FDLE to send a letter to all Sheriffs Depts in Florida, that what they want, they don’t want a letter from FAC or anyone else to tell them what someone else told them, they want it From FDLE, it makes it proof that FDLE said this and now they have to apply it….
Unfortunately FAC lacks the power to direct them to send a letter to all Sheriff’s departments. There’s no chance they will.
There are 67 counties in Florida. That’s roughly $40 in postage and two people to stuff envelopes and address them. It can probably be accomplished in an hour.
Will anyone reading this step up to volunteer for the project? If so, contact membership@floridaactioncommittee.org and let Anita know that you would like to volunteer to complete this task.
I will do it! Such letter serves as Notice no matter who it comes from. And failure for a public official to not act inaccordance with the stated law and its described application by the implementing agency is actionable on a Writ of Mandamus for injuctive relief. This language would need to be in the letter as well putting them on notice that the purpose of the letter is to make right thier behavior or come under the scrutiny of the court and force them to apply law as written or face consequences. And yes, a public official not complying with proper enforcement of a regulatory law can result in being charged with a misdemeanor offence. Let’s do this… the law is our weapon on this issue!
Mark,
I will Help with this, I will put up the $40 or so for postage and I will print the copies of the letters once agreed on. We seem to be going around in circles with this issue. contact me if you can figure out how. I wrote a letter of my own to FDLE to see what answer I got. I will share with you.
Coordinate through membership@floridaactioncommittee.org
I will send my contact details via FAC’s email
Thank you Mark and Robert for stepping up. The letter has already been sent to each Sheriff. But there are other jobs that need to be done. The membership team will contact you. With Unity Comes Change!
Does this need to go to the Police also? Or does the Sheriff Work?
The County administers the registry, not city police departments.
Broward county sheriffs dept, told me that (and has been telling me that for 20+ years) that was the policy of FDLE, i have to report leaving the state for any reason or be subject to Arrest and transported back to Broward..
I told them about this letter and showed the letter, they said unless it comes from FDLE, they ignore what FAC says, that FDLE said because its a 3rd party information, and not directed at Broward County Sheriffs dept, it’s hearsay….
They said listening to anyone other than what they say, will get me arrested and put back in jail, if you leave Florida and there not told 5 days ahead of time…
In that case they are coming up with their own rules. Being told 5 days ahead of time? That’s not even in alignment with the 48 hours required before establishing another residence. Please get the name of the BSO deputy who told you this and contact info@floridaactioncommittee.org.
Thank you for providing this much needed clarification. I do wonder on the international side, FL law says you must register if traveling 5 days outside the US. What if it’s only 4? Then there’s no restrictions?
JC, That’s on the Florida side. International Megan’s Law (IML) and Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (SORNA) guidelines require that all registrants report any international travel to their respective sex offender registry at least 21 days prior to departure from the United States. Although not all states require that you report international travel, you may be subject to federal prosecution if you fail to provide notice of ALL international travel, even if less than 4 days.
Gotcha. Thanks for that. That’s what I figured. It’s just weird for Florida to have a less stringent approach than the Feds. I wouldn’t try to test it, but It’s interesting because I should have been off the Federal list after 15 years (I think) but I’m still on Florida’s. Therefore technically both Feds and Florida shouldn’t require a 4 day trip give notice. But that’s a question for the lawyers, I guess. Anyway Thanks for the response!
And again, my question arises from the IML comment. If you are removed from your home state’s registry, yet Florida keeps you on their state’s lifetime registry, how then can I register international travel “to [my] respective sex offender registry”? I can speculate that my home state will say, go away, and Florida will say, you don’t live here.
What I am reading is a fine example of just how fouled up…see, I can be nice if I have to…our political system, but then I must remember that ‘politics’ is a no-no for discussion purposes.
Thank you FAC. Again you, the individuals in this organization, show just how blessed we are that you all are looking out for so many.
The sex offender or predator language is a bit much. No one is currently offending anyone. They are person required to register and should be referred to as such or something akin to that. But that is a battle for another day.
I live in Volusia county. My understanding is that I had to notify them prior to traveling out of state. I have done so. They give me a paper to take with me in case I am pulled of or such. I am told to call the office when I return home to let them know.
Im volusia as well. Same
Deal ANYTIME out if state i had to report dates. Even ifni were gone one day AND had to call to say im back
Now you know.
So, this just happened. I reported my long length stay to the so office. All ok. All of a sudden Local pd comes out to the house to do an address verification literally right after we leave. I call local pd officer and tell them situation as i dont want any trouble. Officer asks if i reported travel i said of course and thought all is ok. I travel monthly but this time its for longer.
I was told i need to come back to complete the quarterly verification for the local pd or they will be forced to interview the neighbors as per their procedures and then who knows what else if i dont comply. They Tell me its the best thing to do to avoid problems as they dont have a copy of the travel update. Just got here today and am now flying back to take care of this and show my fdle paper to the local pd. Never had any issues ever like this ever. Havent been on any paper in decades. I was asked if i registered my travel in the state im in (former home state) i have the paperwork stating i no longer need to report (never on a public registry anyway) asked to bring all that in.
I thought these local pd checks were just a paper formality but seems its not. Remember, im not on any supervision anywhere. I do my updates at the SO and never missed one nor any info updates. Been stuck in fl for 7 years now. Never wanted to live here. Figured they told me to register and im on for life insanely so kinda got forced to stay. Whole family here now.
Just to let you all know whats happened.
Update : so i again called and am now flying back to florida to do their address verification (local pd) in order to avoid “problems” I have to leave my family behind in the northeast and fly back to sign their quarterly address verification slip. I am told they do not see these fdle updates. And they cannot skip a verification. Seems like it means i can never travel before their spontaneous quarterly address verifications. I also just did my 6month the week before i left. This is just soooo wrong
JM – you might want to write to attorney Val Jonas to let her know about this.
This makes no sense I can understand the In person required reporting but Address verification under Florida law and the form I sign each Quarter says Any sexual offender who fails to report in person as required at the sheriff’s office, who fails to respond to any address verification correspondence from the department within 3 weeks of the date of the correspondence, who fails to report all electronic mail addresses and all Internet identifiers prior to use, or who knowingly provides false registration information by act or omission commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084
As long as you are doing your 2 or 4 time a year reporting you do not have to be around for a Address verification. My officer comes back when I am home or I see him at next Registration. I see nothing in Florida law to say otherwise . You are not on any required schedule but to do your in person Registration by the last day of the Month on your reporting month. That’s at your leisure. Obviously we have as no surprise making this very Punitive and beyond the scope of the law because somebody is lazy.
Video of them banging on door at 11pm yelling the departments name. I called the department to inform them of what i thought was compliance: was informed it is my “best interest” to come back and do this. Otherwise im not compliant in their eyes. Doesnt matter about the fdle forms etc. said it wasnt on their desk. 7 years no issues and now this. Needless to say im about to try to get off the damn list. I cant afford any chances. This is a new escalation. It happened once a while
Back and it was a simple call from the officer asking when we could meet up as i was busy with the kids and the back and forth and missed them. I was once asked if i spoke to my detective….. i dont have a detective i dont even have a residency restriction. It was a federal and my homestate never published and i have a letter saying im off any of their registries. Do the sheriffs not share that info?
Hello JM
What is you. Local PD?
Seem to be over reach.
Praying for you.
Update: todays officer was taken aback that i was told to do this. Seems theres no agreement even with these. Just so happens one showed up here. Verified. Even though I told them i had reported my travel AND i did not need to register in the state as its my home state as im off it. Alot of questioning this time. Still dont understand why they run you on the computer.
Get a lawyer and sue the shit out of them. Good luck.
This is why I contribute what I can to both FAC and ACSOL even though I live in neither Florida nor California. Democracy is imperiled when those in authority exceed that authority. Thanks, FAC.
I have always exercised this type of common sense despite the advice of the ‘travel blogger’.
Any chance the emails and letters can be posted as pdf?
Makes it a heck of a lot easier to print.
Every sheriff’s office in the state should be sent this letter to make sure that they comply with the statutes. Like just about everyone else, I was told that I had to let them know everything about my travel, when I was leaving, where I was staying, and when I was coming back or I would be hit with a violation.
In which county do you register?
Hernando County
Hernando here as well and told same thing. I have to go inform them of a trip to California in September which I will fly there drive back. Last time they asked for addresses I be staying, days of travel to miles I’d be traveling, iternary for vehicles used, and purposed return date this was in November last year and February this year. It’s a process there also love FAC send Hernando sherif the letter.
This process and information is more extensive than the army did to me on vacation travel or anything.
If you are not on probation this Informacion is totally unnecessary and is the ‘brainchild’ of a tyrant unable to manage authority. It’s time for this sheriff to go fishing and quite harassing citizens.
True I try do the same and also where I stop each state has different reporting statutes usually most states done require you to report if it’s under 2 to 3 days so I rarely if I’m just driving to get home or somewhere stay in a state longer than 24 hours. Lol Texas I can get access in 32 hours safety big state. But them requiring and itinerary and each stop is BS. Our sherif here made a sheet to put I’m our profile record (yes deputy acknowledge that he requires ever sex offender in area to have a file on had not on probation or anything) and it was printed with his letterhead saying we shall adhere to the florida and SNORA regulations. This isn’t required by any state or federal law. Can someone help us in Hernando County please.
When I travel, I know none of that information. I go to and stop wherever my freedom as an American lets me.
Osceola county requires notice to leave state along with all travel plans, routes, ticket copies if going other than personal car, details of places staying on the way and being visited and return details and a call upon return.
They also require in state travel details to be reported BEFORE leaving (not within 48 hours after as stated in statute) with reservations to be made to the office weeks in advance (since 48 hour reservations are always unavailable) with all details of travel plans, the same as out of state travel.
This office has no idea of the regulations and uses one overworked clerk to perform all SO duties that does not understand the legal statutes at all and can not answer any questions concerning them. The sheriff has stated in public that all sex offenders need to be in jail.
FAC check out this INSANE guidance from Osceola.
From the replies, I now must ask: what is the point of obtaining FDLE clarification on ANYTHING, if FDLE won’t notify the sheriffs and the sheriffs won’t take our word for it as a third party?
An FDLE phone rep once instructed me, “your county sheriff’s office is the one empowered with arrest, so you should ask THEM.”
Do we know whether counties like Osceola have made any arrests, for failure to comply with rules such as those above?
We can do a freedom of information act request. Here’s the thing… if you read the comment to CherokeeJack from a few days ago, we have a lot of people who make the suggestions but very few who do the work. Jacob, I know that you provide some of the most intelligent commentary on here, so this comment is not directed to you but to the membership at general.
If we could get a couple of members to step up and say “we’d like to help with this project” and approach membership to volunteer, it will get done. If we just add it to the growing list of tasks that are already on the board’s “to do” list, this will either fall into a never ending queue where the top item is always going to be someone dying on the streets or getting picked up on a BS violation, or it will take a long time to get done.
Jethro, its interesting that Osceola County requires all this but neighboring Orange County does not since it is the same prosecutor for both counties.
I have been under the same understanding as many others on here. I register in Santa Rosa county, and the officer there has said if I plan to travel outside the state for more than 24 hours, I have to physically come into the office with my travel itinerary before I leave, and then physically “check in” when I return from my trip. I was under the understanding thst this was required by FDLE?
You were misinformed
Greetings,
I reside in Volusia County and therefore register at the VCSO location off of route 92 in Daytona. On at least 2 occasions 2 1/2 to 5 years ago I asked the “woman behing the glass” what i needed to do to be compliant with ttravelling out of state for 5 days. she stated:
I need to goto the Florida DMV and change my permanent address, the one on my drivers license to the address of the Motel or residense where I eould be staying out of state before I left. Conversely I needed to change it back once I returned back from out of state. This set off all kinds if bells and whistles in my head as all the issues that could go wrong could lead to serious implecations.
Are those woemn in the VCSO “sworn officers”? do they have the authority to mis state information based on their misguided beliefs. Is there any any checking of their work, and their interactiions by their superiors. I wonder how frequently mis information like this is given as truth. I would like to hear from other people if this is just a Volusia county Issue.
It may be just a Volusia County issue. I hope that doesn’t take away from others misadventures within their County. My experience in Volusia County was that the VCSO was all about fear and intimidation. I’m partially deaf. I found it next to impossible to hear them sometimes. Asking them to explain or repeat themselves only irritated them. Wasn’t much better when registrants had to go to the trailer on the side. I don’t miss Volusia.
If it wouldn’t be a blatant unconstitutional witch hunt,they would definitely require you to inform them if you crossed the Florida border into another state. That’s something they can’t get away with, but wish they could. The sex offender hysteria is raising its ugly head just as it did during the Jessica Lunsford frenzy. Hold on for the ride, because us about to get real. If people can’t have all the sex they crave, they want to destroy people, and who better than a sex offender?
What’s the chances of the Ex Post Factoid challenge succeeding now that we are all of sudden in a heightened state of SO frenzy all of a sudden?
I’m not seeing any clarification here. The 2022 FDLE response is the same as their 2018 response. The first paragraph is exactly the same. The 2022 second paragraph merely removes the definition references and creates a third paragraph to state those definitions.
My analysis is, no, you do not have to report “travel” outside of Floriduh if you “will not establish a residency outside of Florida.” However, by definition, if you break the “3-day rule” for temporary residence, you are establishing a residence outside of Floriduh because it specifically says “destinations in or out of this state.”
Also, there are requirements in the states you travel to that must be followed:
LATEST UPDATED SUMMARY: https://a2twozee.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
MAIN PAGE [HAS SOME 2022 STATE UPDATES] https://a2twozee.blogspot.com/
MAP PAGE: https://a2twozee.blogspot.com/p/map-visitor-registration-requirements.html
Hello JZ, I believe just like you.
I have been following the guidelines of the 2018 FDLE letter. This time FAC did a great service for us in their follow up letter this year. I only report when I am going g to pass the threshold . I live in Orange county and have always been met with respect, I have been doing this since the inception of the reporting.
I only give the address for that place, if the rest of my travel does not push me over the threshold I don’t give it if they ask about I say we are traveling.
I hand them an itinerary and put traveling for the dates that are not over the threshold.
I think where some of the folks are hitting a wall, is going in and asking the question about t their travel plans to those at the registration office.
Well that’s my two cents worth.
This is really a BIG can of worms. My main concern on the post above was the issue of changing my address on my drivers license. The issue of bringing all my travel docs to the Sheriffs office is secondary.
Whars frustrating is this, unless the Sheriff is trolling these posts I dont think they could care about spewing incrrect travel procedures.
This next part may be an issue for the Legal team, but here goes. Could a “Friend of the court Brief” be filed that would demant fair and honest treatment and bring the ineptness of the Sheriff office to light. I am 78 and have a very difficult time hearing them speak, and I suppose that is on purpose as well. For the FAC members to be educated is of little use.
I plan on attending to attend the Meet and Greet on August 20, hope we can start a ground swell of interesst.
Regards
Robert
A “friend of the court brief” filed into which case?
“…who intends to establish a permanent, temporary, or transient residence in another state or jurisdiction other than the State of Florida shall report in person to the sheriff of the county of current residence within 48 hours before the date he or she intends to leave this state…”
Remember that a temporary residence is included in the term residence.
How I interpret it: If you are traveling out of state to a state that requires registering a temporary residence after a set amount of days stay there (ie: 3 days), then you MUST report that travel 48 hours before departing.
So technically, “simply leaving the state” is not a required reported notification; however, if you are registering your “stay” in another state it is.
Does this sound about right?
BraNded…
You are correct…..however, there are some Jurisdictions on which a Temporary Residence is NOT established until after a period of time….some draconian Jurisdictions it is 48 hours…other Jurisidctions it can be up to 30 days….and some do not require any notification…..
However, in your example, returning back to a Jurisdiction, like, Flori-DUH, you might be greeted by Flori-duh’s LEO’s as you cross back in to the Sunshine State
So, it would be based on the Jurisdiction’s definition of the word TEMPORARY!
most definitions of Temporary are: “lasting for only a period of time; not permanent”
or per Black’s Law Dictionary.. “A Term for a Postponement for A Limited Time”
Respectfully disagree. The reporting requirement in Florida is based on Florida’s definition of temporary residence.
Florida doesn’t have a clue as to what the definition of ‘temporary’ is. I have traveled most of my life and I never…repeat never…considered a motel/hotel as ‘temporary residence’…just a place to shower/shave and get some rest. To call such a stop as ‘temporary residence’ is ludicrous. As I have previously stated…anything to justify a politician/LEO paycheck!!
FAC#3
I was referring to the definitions of the word temporary
Every Jurisdiction has their own made up definitions
I do not know Florida’s definitions…..
thanks
I guess just never been asked! been pulled over for Traffic Violations,Car Crash, Marine Patrol and never 1 time has my Status come up. If you came back into Florida and had been pulled over and not on Probation I’m trying to imagine the conversation the Officer could legally have with you?. Do you have a obligation to answer any questions beyond the subject of why you had been pulled over?. Am I just lucky my Registration Status in over 15 years has never been questioned unless coming back to the USA?. Dont want to be stuck in a small Florida Jail but not really understanding what our Obligation is to when it comes to offering Info to Law Enforcement about Travel outside our area while in Transit. I always assumed it was simply to show current Registration IF asked. I would never give out details of my Travel unless required and only to my local contact. Im on my way home! I am registered! I have am current on my reporting requirements in my county sir. Just passing thru from the next county etc. Why on earth would I provide any of that.
The other half of my story it that, regarding my last trip to Itasca Illinois 2 1/2 years ago.
FDLE lady behind the glass told me I needed to checkin to the Illinois Sheriffs office and register there upon arrival. Since the shereff was in Dupags County and 30 miles away and I arrived late friday eve, i drove to the sheriff office Saturday morning. Another person behind the glass told me that office was closed on the weekend. So I returned on Monday morning. When I returned I was told that registration is in the town or city where I am staying. I went back and registered at the Itasca PD. I was fingerprinted by the cop and later that day he showed up at my hotel to sheck to she if I was really there.
Just think of how important those officers must have thought that they are!!
I cant deal with all this and its stupid all the time reporting,changing etc not to mention having your name in other states. Having to change my DL all the time? No Thanks. I address the issue by following the law. I leave the state and simply do not stay any 1 specific place more than a couple of days. That’s way better then doing all this. I also try to make trips that I am always on the move, I try to avoid long Domestic Travel because of this. It is possible to be gone weeks this way. Better to leave the Country and dont have any requirements but the 21 Day Notice to your first Intended Destination. I change my plans once out and don’t worry about anything till I am back home to the good old USA.
AMEN brother!!
Nosweattravel, have you ever known the term “perpetual tourist?” Many ex-pats live abroad by being in a constant state of motion. That is, they move from city to city and country to country as perpetual tourists so thst they don’t need visas. I do the same as you by either traveling as anonymous as possible and leaving very little evidence if any of my stays anywhere.
Yes my local office cares that I am here for my required in person Registration. I have asked before what happens if I am still outside the Country when its due and he said they would delete me and add me back once I came home if gone past that timeframe. That didnt make sense either because Florida never deletes you!. Maybe he is saying the Address in Florida would be changed to overseas and then updated on my return. Not sure I want to do that because years ago when I first came home they sent flyers and knocked on all my neighbors doors. I am not sure they are doing that still
I was directly told id have to be back for the two in person registrations or face arrest. Direct quote. Between that and my local pd checks it seems i can only travel within certain windows. Still dont see how that helps anyone….. at all
Jm, it doesn’t help anyone except for the PD officers who need to justify their paychecks.
Keep in mind, that some states (such as Utah) require “notification” regardless of the amount of time you are visiting. When I contacted a local office, they told me that if it was less than the allotted days required to register (10 days in this jurisdiction), then they just unofficially document your arrival and departure, but then discard it once you depart.
BRAnDed according to Utah’s official web site on Sex offender Registration it states “Out-of-state offenders must register within 10 days of entering the state, regardless of the length of stay” so you have 10 Max days to Register and well if you have left you cant! so I dont see the requirement to Register at entry.
Well, “regardless of length of stay” is quite ambiguous in my view.
Utah’s official website is not the same as Utah law. Registration is not required of those visiting less than 10 days in the calendar year:
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title77/Chapter41/77-41-S102.html
(h/t: NARSOL state wiki)
To NosweatTravel:
I agree with you, it IS stupid all the rime. It is now and will continue to be stupid. The wording in the laws are so ambiguous that people like myself refuse to traved because our rights to do so have been stripped from us. I think I am relatively smart But I CANNOT makw awnae of the wording by SORNA or FDLE. My contact with the shere amounts to 2 sets of persons. 1, the Woamn behind the glass at the FDLE office, and the officers that come to my house to do residense checks. Those persons behind the glass are the lowest on the totem pole. Are those persons even sworn officers? I doubt it.
Robert not sure what area you are in but I refuse to let it stop me so I adapt. I do get the knock on the door sometimes a couple of times a year but if I am not home they come back and sometimes dont. I do my required Registration. Besides that I dont hear from them and most dont even care what I do as long as I dont hassle them with it. I actually had a officer at the office once tell me a idea how to get into a country I was having a problem with and suggested a boat or small Ferry from one that I could!. I dont see my area on the Hunt to trip people up but could depend on the officer and charges. People are People and all are different. Dont give up! I am looking to do some travel both Domestic and International soon and might even try the cruise just to see how it goes
Anonomous. I have adapted. I am in volusia. So are you suggesting to ignote what they tell me re travel procedures. Not sure thats a good idea.
Sounds like we need to follow-up with Pasco,Volusia and Brevard at the least to see they get the proper guidance from FDLE. Maybe we could get FAC or a Attorney to set up a Complaint Web Form so we can document the Violations of these Offices and take some kind of action if needed? Another Fund Drive? Accident Injury Attorneys and Credit file lawsuits all the time. How can we make these cases worth the Time to the Attorney and Painful to Counties that ignore the law. Just my thoughts
I could be wrong but the way I understand all this a River Cruise that goes across many places and states might be a great way to also avoid the Hassle. International Travel is cheaper often and you have no restrictions once out of the country. I prefer my vacation outside the USA and I start to feel normal again.
Anonymous, I would love to know how international travel works for us. I have the lowest level CP conviction by the feds, but it is still a felony CP conviction. I’m very seriously leaving this country, just not sure what other countries will accept me now that Uncle Sam brands our passports and notifies recipient nations.
Just Sayin. I have been to Europe several times and have never had a problem…until I return to the US. I always get a second interview and sometimes search of my bags. The last time the customs officer was very aggitated, raised his voice at me and finally threw my passport down and walked off. Welcome home! I have also taken my small sailboat to Abaco Bahamas several times and had no problem going or coming back.
Just Sayin. I have been to Europe several times and have never had a problem…until I return to the US. I always get a second interview and sometimes search of my bags. The last time the customs officer was very aggitated, raised his voice at me and finally threw my passport down and walked off. Welcome home! I have also taken my small sailboat to Abaco Bahamas several times and had no problem going or coming back.
Jethro, you could show them a printed copy of the statute. The requirements are to give them the address of the location you are staying and the date(s). Nothing else for domestic travel.
Another Robert did you report your Travel 21 days before for Bahamas? I am getting something soon and would like to do Bahamas and some of the day trips from Miami. Really dont want to have my info blasted to the Bahamas for a day trip but will do whats legal Thanks
Folks, notification of international travel is required by law! Both state and Federal.
If you are covered by IML, you better do it!
Anonymous (July 19). Yes I did report my trip to the Bahamas more than 21 days of when I left. For a “day” trip there is no requirement even if it’s out of the country. If you are spending 3 days or more in the same location then you are to report that.
Folks, all international travel must be registered, whether or not you are establishing residence, if you are covered under IML. “Three or more days” refers to domestic travel only.
More LEO efforts to justify a paycheck. Why go after hardened criminals and risk life and limb when they can go after ‘low hanging fruit’ at no risk?
FAC do you know if the “temporary address” in the state that you are visiting is according to Florida definitions of three days or more, or is it the definition of the state you are visiting? Some states are up to 14 days, like the GA definition stated below. Does that mean if I visit GA I do not need to report to Florida that I am leaving the state and traveling if I return in 13 days since I meet the requirements of GA as not establishing a temporary residence. Most states are about a week to establish a temporary residence when visiting. This is all so confusing that travel is nearly impossible.
The three day in a year rule makes it impossible to stay with a girlfriend without reporting every time you want to spend the night there, even for one night in the state, once you have overnighted there three times, Completely insane because appointments in my county must be made weeks in advance to get one….
Travelling to PA is 30 days before notice of residence (Temp 0r Perm) is to be established. They wouldn’t even take my name & phone number, said it was too much trouble.
A couple of years ago I went to Virginia Beach for a Navy conference. Like a good Florida registrant, before I even went to the hotel in Virginia Beach, I stopped by the state police office…as instructed…and went up to the desk in the main office. An officer behind the desk looked up and asked me how she could help me. I told her I was a registrant from Florida and checking in for a conference. She looked at me and said, “What do you want me to do?” Here, initial this travel permit. She did and I was on my way. I didn’t even get asked where I was staying. It was a very pleasant conference. We have too many ‘authorities’ in Florida making up their own rules.
You must abide by the law where you’re leaving (FL) and going (PA). FL says if staying anywhere 3 or more days at any address (permanent and temporary residences) or county (transient) (defined in §775.21), in our out of this state, must be reported. We can chop up the words all we want, but my suggestion is that if you’re going to be out of state for 3 or more days, bare minimum you better be inquiring with your registration office, if not insisting that they register your travel.
Now on to the states you travel to (PA in your example) and through (if driving, there will be several). You MUST obey THEIR laws the moment you cross into THEIR jurisdiction. So, technically, if you drive THROUGH Georgia but GA had a law that you are obliged to register the moment you step foot on their land, that’s what you have to do. To my knowledge, no state has this short of a trigger. The shortest I know of is 48 hours (TN, NV, AL are possible examples). So, technically you need to research all states you’ll be in. Typically, however, I research where I’ll be stay overnight, because I’ve not seen or heard of any state requiring registration immediately upon entry.
SEE THIS FOR MORE INFO https://floridaactioncommittee.org/state-contacts-and-registration-requirements-for-visiting-persons-required-to-register-as-sex-offenders/
*** I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
Also, if you have a multi-destination itinerary, IMHO the only info FL should have any legitimate claim to is your first destination or the first one you will reside at for 3 or more days. Anything after that is on the state(s) who would assume jurisdiction after leaving Florida. If driving to WA you may stop in a new state every night, so do you report the first stay or the first one over three days? Law isn’t clear there. Additionally, if you don’t know which state or address you’ll be at along the way, there’s no real answer to what you can provide, but you’d be wise to try to report at least the fact that you’re leaving the state for 3 or more days!!!
As to your second statement: Frankly, the law is vague because it offers no clear definition of a day. If you arrive at your girlfriend’s place at 8PM sleep overnight, then leave at 8AM, have you stayed there a whole day? In my non-legal opinion, hell no. That’s 12 hours. On the other hand, if you just left at 8AM to go to work, then you get back again at 8PM and stay another night, well it looks a whole lot like you’re living there at that point. If you have your own permanent residence where you keep your clothes, where you shower, keep your belongings, etc., and you just like spending the night with your girlfriend most nights, or maybe you just have a meal and hang out for a few hours, still, it doesn’t strike me as a residence. If the law said “wherever you sleep at night”, that’s clearer, but hell some people sleep during the day and work overnight. Clearly, there would have to be a lot more defining to make it work. So, it’s unfortunately so vague that it’s up to you to decide what you’re willing to defend if it became an issue. FAC has a lawsuit about this issue I believe.
*** I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
Good afternoon
With all the posts concerning the letter from FAC and FDLE’s response there still seems to be a lot of confusion concerning what is right.
Sometimes a scenario will help clear things up.
TRAVELING
1. Depart on a flight Friday 6AM – arrive AM (1st day is a travel day and does not count?) is that correct?
2. Check in Friday. Different county than arrival
3 There Saturday and Sunday Day 1&2
4 . Leave Monday morning for another state Day 1&2
5. Leave that state Tuesday
6. Back to airport in first state overnight Day 1
Fly home Wed morning.
Will that require checking out in Florida?
Also what is a day?
Thanks for all you do
Definition of a “day” is an entirely different issue that is not addressed by either FAC’s letter or FDLE’s response.
Would you be so kind as to answer the first part of my comment excluding the question of day? Thanks Sailtime
Another person asked about a day in these posts and I will answer him from a letter from FAC to membership, that I hold in my hand.
PLEASE DO NOT RELY ON AN FAC INTERPRETATION. FAC is NOT a law firm, we are not licensed nor qualified to provide any legal opinion on your hypothetical. If you plan to travel and are unsure of the registration requirements you can contact FDLE (though they may not answer your question either), you can retain an attorney who is qualified to provide an opinion, you can err on the side of caution and register something you may not necessarily need to but you can’t be arrested for over-reporting (unless your plans change and you forget to notify them), or you can adjust your plans to either stay clearly under “3 or more days” (ie: overnight) or clearly over (ie: 4 days) so there is no confusion.
With the way the law is currently written, if you pose the same hypothetical to FAC, FDLE, an attorney and some random person reading the statute, you might get 4 different answers.
What we see here is what happens anytime a tyrant is given authority.
Just checked the FDLE website – NO CHANGE – Have any idea how long it takes for them to make the correction? Thanks Sailtime
FAC has no affiliation with the FDLE and we do not control any of the content on their website. If you have questions about content on their site or how long it takes them to update, you should direct your question to FDLE.
AGREED – And I know that for many of us we are so very thankful for the many of you who give so much of your time.
I was just trying to help bring some clarity to a crazy situation.
I have been jumping through the hoops for nearly 3 Three decades, The problem is they keep changing the hoops and making them harder to jump through.
That’s why I support FAC with more than money. FAC tries to bring some semblance of sanity to our lives.
Thanks
No matter how many times i’ve read all the comments, I’ll never understand exactly what to do if I go on vacation. I’m planning a trip to MA in June for 6 days, but I won’t be staying at any 1 place while there. A couple of nights in a hotel, then my daughter’s house for a couple of days, then my niece’s house for a couple of days, then back to Florida. Plus 2 days to drive up and 2 days to drive back. Do I need to report to the Sheriff’s Office before leaving?
In my humble option. In the case of 2-day-max stays, Florida statutes say “no” re: having to notify the cops. However, local cops mostly say “yes” – notify them of your complete itinerary or potentially be arrested. More ambiguity from Florida law enforcement. So, you have to decide whether to take the risk. Remember that the cops will face no discipline should they wrongfully arrest you and you are subsequently acquitted. You will also have such an arrest on your record. Whatever you choose to do, make sure that you understand MA’s laws re: registration. If Florida cops know you’re going there, they may send notification to MA to be on the lookout for you.
I made a typo above. By “option”, I meant “opinion”.
I should have mentioned that, depending on how a judge might interpret a “Transient” residence (if you stay at different places for two days each over a six day period, and those places are all in the same COUNTY, are you considered a “transient”?), you may have trouble. The FAQ on the FDLE website still does a very poor job of answering the temporary travel question … always trying to keep us fearful. Again, make sure that you understand the MA laws, too.
There’s no law requiring registration of Peter’s itinerary, and I’ve never heard of arrest for for failure to report domestic itinerary.
Itinerary appears in the law only as it relates to international travel.
Nevertheless, the safest policy I think would be for Peter to ask the question of one’s own home county registration office and see what they expect. Since it’s the home county sheriff that can make the decision to arrest.
(I’m assuming MA has no such requirement, but best to check with them).
Good evening
Was wondering what happened to the hearing that was to happen early 2023 concerning the three day travel where the judge said it was ridiculous
That’s known as our Ex Post Facto II challenge.
Like my neighbor said…she’s the wife of a retired NYPD lieutenant…registered citizens would be better off if they had murdered someone…less restrictions. It’s time we say to these do-gooder politicians…’game over’. That’s what I have done. At my age I’m not ready to turn over to some politician, control of what is left with my life. I didn’t serve my country for 29 years so some politician could destroy my life. After many years since my ‘failure’ my daughter and her family and I get along just fine. They have moved to Brevard.
I’m a registered citizen living in Hernando County. I am leaving next Thursday to travel to Boston and will be coming back on Monday. I’ve been told that I must give them my itinerary of travel at least 48 hours before leaving. I thought that we didn’t have to report to the sheriff’s office when leaving the state.
Yes because you will be gone three or more days. Three or more days is considered a permanent residence.
From what I understand, if you are staying in one place for three or more days at your destination then you have to check out.
Florida statutes indicate that, if you are establishing a ‘residence’ at your destination, you’ll need to register your travel plans, in advance, with the sheriff. However, if you don’t stay at a particular address for more than two nights, you don’t legally have to inform Florida before leaving, since the law defines a ‘residence’ as lasting 3 or more days. However, during re-registration once, I told my local deputy that I planned to travel out of state and change hotels every day so that I didn’t violate the stupid statute. He told me that, regardless of statute, if Florida cops found out about it, they would arrest me. So, if you decide to go without alerting Florida first, make sure you retain some kind of evidence (like hotel receipts) re: where you stayed each night. Also, be potentially ready for a bogus arrest and expenses to fight your case in court. I wasn’t really planning to travel, I just wanted to hear what cops had to say about it. This is a case where cops can potentially make your life hell by ignoring the law themselves. However, their threats may be just BS. Just a decision that you have to make. I am not an attorney and you should not rely on my knowledge or experience in any way.
It’s been my experience that traveling out of state is not nearly as bad as traveling within the state for 3 or more days, especially if the state you’re visiting doesn’t require you to register. You must investigate that and call their authorities if necessary. Some states require registration for any amount of time, for some it’s three days, for some it’s 14 days or longer. In Miami-Dade County, the process takes only a few minutes (once it’s actually your turn) but you have to report to the sheriff’s office within 48 hours of leaving and within 48 hours of your return to let them know you’re back. They’ve always been very professional with me and say “enjoy your trip–see you when you get back.”
Most County sheriff depts, closed on the weekends…..and the time starts when you enter the county you’re staying…
Whatever happened to the doe v. SWEARINGEN case ? The case that several registrants with convictions prior to to 1997 ? It seems like the case was shut down by the judge ?
To My Knowledge Judge in South Florida sitting on it. Probably waiting on the North Florida case. But IDK
Yes, and in the Northern District, the trial is scheduled for early in November in Tallahassee.