Dr. Phil to feature Police ICAC proactive stings.
The Dr. Phil Show airing on CBS will air an episode featuring Sex Stings next Monday, December 7, 2020.
The show will feature an FAC member whose son was targeted in one of these stings who has been fighting to expose them since. Also featured is Florida attorney Peter Aiken of Aiken, O’Halloran and Associates, who defends people caught up in these stings.
For local station and air times, please see: https://www.drphil.com/local-listings/
5 stars for Dr. Phil
This is the kind of exposure that can do some good if all goes well.
Yes your are right. When these stings get a full investigation you will find the lies and illegal dealings here in Washington State. One judge owns a newspaper and sits on the appellate court and was the only dissenting voice in an entrapment defense from a case where the lead detective changed texts, admitted he had no probable cause, admitted he kept texting the defendant cause he wasn’t showing up and wanted to see if he could get him to show up.
The stings are corrupt and dirty police work to the core. The police do not care about “saving children” or keeping communities safe. It is all a lie.
Didn’t you read the very first comment by Aracely (who said he was one of the people on the show)? It DIDN’T go well. Go back and read the comment.
This should be interesting, to say the least! “Dr.” Phil is an Oprah protogé who shares her warped values and will no doubt make FAC as well as other s/o advocates look like a bunch of perverted sex fiends!
John, you mentioned that Dr. Phil shares Oprah’s warped values. I couldn’t agree more. About 15 years ago, she did a show that was supposed to expose how easy it is to find CP online. FDLE tracked a guy for her show whose IP address was being used to download CP. They dragged an old fat man from his trailer home, wearing only his underwear. It made for the false stereotype the media moguls like Oprah want us to have. As it turned out, the man was innocent! His teenage son programmed the family computer to download porn while he was at school. The porn included underage porn. Oprah and her so called journalist never did any follow-up because they got the wrong guy. I’d like to know Dr. Phil’s and Oprah’s real take on this, but I’m sure they’ll never share it.
I’m no fan of mr. Ego, aka Dr. Phil. But I will tune in to this one. I will say this now however, don’t be surprised if this show goes against us.
Bill, you’re right. It’s all in the final editing of the videos that matters. Interviews can be diced up to say anything they want in order to make the show achieve its objectives (to make them money).
Hopefully some integrity will be exercised in the production process.
It was pretty disappointing that Dr. Phil defended the police’s actions (entrapping vulnerable individuals on adult sites), but I think it was more that he just didn’t fully understand that police had advertised themselves on an adult site to adults who were seeking a casual encounter/no strings attached, which typically means casual sex and posed as someone who was also seeking and offering that. He used these stories to send a message out to parents about the dangers of minors being online and the possibility of them coming across adults and developing inappropriate relationships with adults, which has nothing to do with minors advertising themselves to random adult strangers on an adult site and offering casual sex to them, which is not even something that really happens. Therefore, there were no real minors protected by any of this. That’s something that many people still just can’t see.
So, the cases were misrepresented, but it did help us see exactly why it’s been so difficult to get anything done about these cases. It’s mainly because most people don’t understand that adults seeking casual sexual on adult sites is a thing, and that there is no such thing as minors seeking casual sex with adults on adult sites.
It’s also more clear now that police know very well they are not catching actual child predators. They are not trying to catch actual child predators. That’s the secret they don’t want to be known.
There’s a much higher payoff to just pretend to be catching child predators than to put in the work it takes to catch the real ones. They make more money this way (from funding, working overtime, and trapping more), and at the same time it benefits the careers of many of those working in the system (police, prosecutors, judges, defense attorneys, probation and parole, those that teach the sex offender classes, etc., the list goes on). They also make a lot more money from all that. Trapping vulnerable individuals on adult sites to label them as child predators is just not something they’re willing to give up.
Dr. Phil at least did point out that the men are not child predators and it’s not serving society’s best interest to throw these men in prison and put them on the sex offender registry. In fact, it’s putting society more at risk, increasing the risk of violence by putting non predators in prison where they are very likely to experience violence, including sexual violence; then releasing them to the public. Sounds incredibly reckless and irresponsible to me.
So in the end, it was major progress at least.
How do you know this? Did the show air already?
I know this because I was on it.
Awesome!!!
Everything I said about how police know that they are not catching actual child predators, how they are not really trying to catch real ones, they do it because it benefits careers, etc. is all stuff I was able to figure out after the taping of the show, based on how that went, based on talking to the police officer (that was also on the show) after the show, and based on talking to the defense attorney that was also on the show. Everything came together after all that. It’s more clear than ever now.
We did provide feedback to Dr. Phil, but it may just go ignored. We’ll see.
Thank you for this. It was very brave.
Thank you, Aracely, for this wise and in-depth discussion and for speaking out. Can’t wait to see the show!
GREEDY GRADY JUDD, is the POSTER BOY of STING OPERATIONS….HE should be featured so the WORLD can see HIS FICTITIOUS NASTINESS!
SPENDING COUNTLESS TAXPAYER DOLLARS EATING PIZZA AND BLOOMIN’ ONIONS WHILE SITTING IN THE STING HOUSES LAUGHING AT EVERYONE….THIS IS ONE REAL SICK PUPPY!
TRUTHS ARE TRUTHS…FACTS ARE FACTS!
Thanks Aracely. I’m not a Dr. Phil fan but will try to watch.
Watch out if you are on line in Washington State. Young men are being entrapped by police who are highly motivated to make a ton of illegal arrests for money….These stings are police predatory practices. Law enforcement trick & lure unsuspecting people to show up at trap houses. These are highly planned out and law enforcement, sheriffs, and prosecutors can put on showy press conferences and use these men for publicity. These sting operations are funded by private far right religious groups aligned with Q’Anon theories and funded by the federal government, ICAC. These police practices are dangerous and the police control this from the beginning..It is called entrapment. Most of these men had no awareness of child predators or of any on line activity of this nature.
These predatory police actions need to be stopped.
Quit preying on our men
Aracely you were brave and honest and the police officer looked very smug and arrogant. The police are luring men out of their homes during a pandemic to set up these stings so they can arrest these unsuspecting men and sentence them to lifetime registration and long prison sentences.
These practices are disgusting and makes our communities less safe and more dangerous. Shame on anyone who supports these stings. They are corrupt. They are illegal.
Way back in 2008, when I was working with Tom Madison on SOClear Media, the group was approached by Dr Phil. I wasn’t a part of the negotiations but the guy who was the point of contact for us broke off the negotiations and told the producer Dr Phil isn’t a real doctor anyways. I don’t know exactly what caused the negotiations to fall through, but I believe it was something about him wanting to drudge up our own pasts, something I’m not keen on doing. So he ended up bringing Jake Goldenflame on his show to play the dancing monkey for the crowd.
I’d agree to go on the show if approached only because I consider the alternative.
However, I’ve learned (at times the hard way) there’s just some things you DON’T talk about on the air.
By far the most important lesson I learned is never let them discuss your past. People can’t handle the truth so when you try to explain to them why you did what you did, all they hear is excuses. What they want is some guy (like Jake Goldenflame was prone to do) who would go on stage and say “I’m a monster, fear me” so the crowd can ooh and aah and gasp because that’s the kind of people who watch trash TV like Phil or Steve Wilkos.
The best any of us can do is try to change the course of the conversation on air. I would rather one of us went on air even on a trash TV show like “Dr” Phull-of-it than have some guy like Goldenflame go on the air and dance for these fools.
Michael Watkins
Sorry but I posted my comment before Aracely posted his. I definitely doesn’t look good but sometimes surprises happen. We can still hope for the best out of it. Sometimes reasonableness has a way of shining through.
Couple of facts. Aracely is a SHE, not a HE. WASCO, CAGE, Lady Justice Myth, SSRepentance and others are all organizational names for the same group of people. We are the ones who were on the show, along with the attorney and police officer. Aracely is in our group and was the catalyst to get us on the show, as was Mike Winerip with the New York Times article.
In my opinion it did go well. Yes, Dr Phil missed a main point of our complaint BUT he is airing our stories – which was my point in doing the show – public knowledge and awareness. We got in some great points that will make people think about this practice. The more people know the more they will question those involved – the accused? The police? the registry? the stereotype? Are these things helpful in their current form? Effective? One step closer to the truth – NO!
Lady Justice, Thank you to all of you for your courage to speak out. That alone is huge and appreciated so very much. As our voices grow louder there will be the good and the not so good, but as long as the good grows and the voices grow the movement will grow.
Thank you FAC for this platform and to everyone who does, what they can, to move a just cause forward.
I guess it’s easier to pretend to be a minor and lure people in a time of weakness; while drinking coffee; eating a donut and spreading fear patting themselves saying, job well done. How many actual minors are put in harms way; while cops are doing these operations? I guess the harm of actual minors aren’t a problem. No wonder society is going to down the sewer because the ones in charge have no moral compass and only care about promotion.
Thanks to Aracely, LJM, WASCO, Cage, SSRepentence and every one else for pulling this off. Like Derek mentioned, this is the type of publicity we need to change these laws.
I also want to mention that a lot of people don’t agree with Derek but I’ve seen him evolve over the last decade or so. He is learning to be more effective over time. All of these groups are new and arose after Derek and need to evolve as well. If you read past FAC posts, it seems they evolved from registry “reform” to registry abolition. These changes need to be made. I also see the occasional pettiness that activists must set aside if they are going to be effective. Derek undeniably is the “father of the anti-registry movement” and has been trying long and hard to effect change. Persons with divergent views have gone their own ways in these various groups. This movement is getting mixed results in the courts because there is no national strategy. Registrants are only concerned about their particular issue in their own particular state. They have to realize that their lack of pretrial preparation is leading to bad decisions that have negative ramifications in every other state. The next stage for this movement has to be cooperation among the various groups, especially in legal strategy.
Aracely has taken this movement one step further in this needed evolution by being the catalyst of getting our side of the argument on a national show with a very high viewership. Thank you Aracely and all of the other participants.
I’m far from being the “father” of this Anti Registry Movement. There were guys like eAdvocate or Paul Shannon around fighting when I was still a college kid before my arrest. I have always been a top tier advocate since I got started and all, though. It just took a while for a few folks to catch up.
I haven’t “improved” my “effectiveness” so much as having a growing number of people in this movement are finally coming to the same conclusions I have been stating for years. I was simply ahead of my time and willing to say what we are all thinking.
I loved FAC’s recent statement we should be ANTI-REGISTRY, not just registry reformists. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, it was FAC’s 2020-11-17 weekly update. If you haven’t read it, do so now:
https://floridaactioncommittee.org/weekly-update-2020-11-17-ref121/
Over the last several months Dr. Phil has had Amanda Knox on his show to talk about her life since being convicted of murder in Italy. I expect there were side conversations about her ‘e-crimes’ podcasts as a Sundance series one featuring a vigilante trucker group ‘Truckers Against Predators’ and their catfishing stings. After that he had 4 truckers on a program, one was from Amanda’s podcast, as well as a guy that had been caught in a sting. He told the truckers he didn’t approve of their antics. Now, this awesome show. Does anybody know anyone in the sting group that was formed in the Pensacola area? When I was talking with them several years ago there were 1,500 Florida victims of stings.
Regarding Derek, he is a changed man. Guess who brought us the Rally in Tally idea and collectively we made it happen. Another person, David S who used to live in Florida and now Kentucky brought the idea of the 10th federal circuit peaceful demonstration and we collectively made it happen. Derek had his corner locked down and the passers-by engaged.
Let’s hope whatever material will help our cause won’t end up on the cutting room floor.
Hope this doesn’t turn out like Untouchable (glorification of the Book crime family).
As a Kindly Reminder, ‘Dr’ Phil’, his real name Phillip Calvin McGraw, holds a doctorate in psychology….He ‘PLAYS’ as a Doctor on Syndicated Television….As of 2006, he has NOT renewed his license to practice.
‘Dr. Phil’, is a Stage Name…He is simply a ‘PAID SPOKESPERSON’
-Thanks!
Derek:
I became aware of this issue when my friend, Fred Farnsworth, was placed on the registry in 2008 for a 1965 conviction. Both Fred and I had black and white TVs when we were kids. Color TV was just coming out. We both had a hard time just turning a computer on. We both tried to figure this whole internet thing out on our own and there were few resources on the registry available on the internet then. We stumbled onto oncefallen and got most of our info off of oncefallen itself or one of it’s links.
Fred has since died and I have intermittently stayed in the fight. I don’t recall this Shannon guy and I don’t think Fred ever heard about him either. The only reliable site Fred was aware of when he died was oncefallen.
Even if you don’t want to wear the mantle of “father” of this movement, if this country ever decides to place a registrant on it’s coin or currency, we will nominate you for the honor. Harriet Tubman knocked Jackson off of the 20. Maybe Derek Logue will knock Jefferson off of the nickel. Let’s see what the Books have to say when that happens. Maybe we can place your favorite state on the obverse side sinking into the ocean due to global warming with the Books on a sinking boat surrounded by hungry sharks on steroids and viagra.
Thank you guys.
Personally, I still think this is also a part of helping cover up for actual sex trafficking. They need to make it look like they are addressing that, but they’re purposely not addressing the real stuff. Too much money involved in that, and we do know money has been a priority to them (LE). Ethics and morals are definitely not their priority.
I mean this does fit in with all the facts we know. It does adds up. Nothing they’ve come up with (to defend these stings) add up.
Is sheriff Judd the poster sheriff of sting operations in Florida? Every time I see him on tv with his wheel of criminals, I just shack my head thinking what’s wrong with the people of Polk county. He should think about a career in voiceover he already looks and sounds like Elmer Fudd.
Brandon…
Elmer Fudd, aka, Greedy Grady, is the Country’s Poster Boy for Entrapment! He gets his rocks off doing these schemes!
He rapes taxpayers’ monies!
He is a Fraud; along with all those sheriffs that actually participate in this fleecing of America!
An ACSOL director and I went after Grady several years ago on Twitter because he would not allow registrants in the hurricane shelters. The NACDL guy over their conference audio group is from Florida and follows us on Twitter. He came up to our display during the Sex Crimes Conference in Vegas and told me that his family is personal friends with Grady and the people in Polk County love him.
Sadly, Gravy Jugg is just a mirror image of the despicable “people” of Puke County. Rural Puke is a hellscape, full of violent and ignorant rednex. The only good thing in Puke County is the Silver Moon. Thank God it is within the city limits of Lakeland, out of his filthy, grubby hands.
Aracely:
The police go after low hanging fruit. That’s why our jails are stuffed with nickel and dime dealers. The ones bringing the drugs into this country take a lot of work and coordination to catch. The DEA and FBI do catch these people but only a small percentage of them.
Persons with low IQ’s or self-esteem are easy targets for stings. Taking down an actual sex trafficking ring is complex and takes months or years. Most of these “sex trafficking” cases turn out to be bunk and fall apart. They usually involve a pimp or two. The police doll up these cases to make these little guys look like big traffickers for the media.
Detroit:
In Texas they know for sure where there is real sex trafficking going on. It’s very common in the oil business (at oil events, service companies offering sex workers to clients in exchange for using their well services, etc.) It’s not a secret! Many people have been very well aware of these practices for many years! There is no way LE is NOT aware of it. They know very well where to find sex trafficking. If they still want to claim or pretend like they don’t know, they can come talk to me. I’ve heard it directly from people who have been around it, had it offered to them, etc.
The problem is not that LE doesn’t know. The problem is that their main interest is money, and there’s much more money involved in allowing sex trafficking to continue, while they falsely label others to pretend like they’re addressing a real problem. The real problem is the lack of ethics and morals from people working in our system.
I’ll add “courage” to that too. There is a huge lack of courage from too many people working in our system who will not stand up and do the right things for the right reasons. Too many people just easily give in and go along, even though they know that what they are doing is just wrong.
If a sex offender is so stupid to stay in online contact with a 13-year-old , propose a meeting and show up with condoms and lube then they deserve to be in jail. And of course sex offenders don’t want to talk about their past to the media. They committed a hideous crime by picking on a child – the “low hanging fruit” for adult horn dogs.
Understandably an adult should be jailed if they are attempting to meet someone of that age for sex.
But fair’s fair, Monkey Man. You yourself hide things from the media, don’t you? The is no reason that your own past— whatever it is you feel most ashamed of— should not also be in the media. Let the public be informed, so that people can make an informed decision about associating with you. If you’re thinking what you yourself have done is not so reprehensible, that’s fine, let people decide.
Who is this Monkey Man really.
The majority on the the sex offense registry never had contact with any 13 yr. old nor any minors. That’s the main problem here. That’s the biggest problem with it . It’s deceptive , misleading the public into thinking it’s something it’s not and obviously you are one of its victims.
Monkey Man, you must be talking about one person in particular.
Most individuals trapped in these stings are not sex offenders at all. They are individuals who were on adult sites looking for a casual encounter with other adults who were also seeking that, and police posed as someone who was looking for and offering that too. Then they changed their age to pretend to be minors who are offering casual sex to random adult strangers. It’s not a realistic situation. There are many reasons why people fall for this, including not believing it’s really a minor doing this, curiosity about why a minor would be doing this (if it’s even real), concern for a minor who is doing this, the pretend minor harassing the adult and not giving up until the adult tells them what they want to hear, etc. The list goes on.
It’s very disturbing that LE is more interested in creating criminals by creating unrealistic situations (saving no children at all) and lying to the public about it, instead of addressing the real problems and saving real children. It’s much easier and very pathetic for them to just pretend to be doing their job instead of really doing it. There needs to be accountability for that.
@MonkeyMan,
But the problem is they aren’t always meeting, or even setting up a meeting. In online stings run by twenty something military investigators they broke every ICAC rule in the book and arrested people for merely talking online to said “14 year old”. No meeting was initiated or needed for their arrest and conviction.
Things aren’t always the way the police portray it.
These stings go against good law enforcement theory and practice. Take the following for example.
Police go to a homeless shelter and offer to give a homeless guy a kilo of heroin to sell and make money. The homeless guy takes the police up on the offer and accepts the kilo of heroin and is arrested. The police take the same kilo of heroin to another 9 guys in the homeless which arrests 9 more people using the same kilo of heroin. The police parade these guys out in front of a press conference and announce, “We have taken 10 dangerous “drug dealers” off of the street and now our streets are much safer”. The reality of this situation is that no drug dealer would ever front a gram of drugs to a homeless guy, let alone a kilo. The police took advantage of 10 homeless guys and never took a single “drug dealer” or grain of drugs off of the street. These homeless guys would go through the court process and spend years in prison at great cost to tax payers for conduct that they would never have gotten the opportunity to engage in in the first place.
I worked in the military police investigations in the army and undercover narcotics work was one of the things I did in MPI. One of our MP’s, George Edwards, kept a gram of marijuana in a small manila envelope in his top desk drawer. I personally know that he made dozens of arrests by “selling” that 1 gram of marijuana to unsuspecting persons. More than 90% of all of George Edwards arrests were for 1 gram of marijuana. Sgt. Edwards didn’t take a single grain of marijuana off of the streets. He simply regurgitated a gram of marijuana he had previously seized and destroyed the lives of young soldiers and got civilians barred from reentry to the post which meant that they lost their on post employment and limited their employment options in the area. This is why we have entrapment laws.
Now take this example and place it in the context of these stings and you will understand.
You have a dirty stinky old man living in a mobile home park. He approaches a variety of 13 year old girls looking for “companionship”. All the girls view him as ugly and old and would never even kiss him let alone have any type of sexual relationship with him. This old man lives the rest of his life and dies without ever being arrested for coming on to these 13 year-old girls, and hence, is never on the sex offender registry.
Along comes the internet. This old man finds a boat load of 13 year-olds on the internet but none of these 13 year-olds want to look at him let alone kiss him. Along comes an undercover officer posing as a 13 year-old and the old man finally “finds” a 13 year-old willing to have sex with him and we all know the outcome.
What makes these stings wrong in police theory and practice is that the vast majority of these “sex offenders” would never have had the opportunity to have sex with a 13 year-old in the first place. You wind up with a bunch of people who wouldn’t have a chance with a real 13 year-old and would have lived the rest of their lives without being arrested except for the fact that they stumbled on to a police sting.
Detroit
Good and detailed and accurate information. Thank You. There needs to be more honest people like you to speak up.
Hello Detroit, these online sting operations are actually not going after pedophiles, they are going on websites such as match.com, plenty of fish, cupid, etc. Adult dating websites. They pose as an available woman, builds a 6 months relationship, hooks the guy, and then do a bait and switch right up until the moment of face to face meeting. When at the last minute the undercover cop says oh by the way I’m 14, we as humans are curious cats. We think no way.. there is no way that this 14 year old can have this much intelligence and maturity, so what do we do. We got to check it out for ourselves. She has to be lying. BOOM, HOOKED, BAIT AND SWITCH…. now you are facing 20 years in prison and lifetime on the registry….being a sexual assaulted survivor 3 times (14, 17, and 18 yrs old) I know what a true predator is. All these cops are doing is creating a camouflage for the true rapist and pedophile. They just need to show the public… hey see its working. Oh and let’s not forget Patty Wetterling who decided to amend the Megan Law and go after underage kids. Her view was to catch a predator while he’s young then we can avoid him hurting children when he is older. WTF. So, now we have a bigger problem. The youngest sex offender on the juvenile registry is 5 years old and on it for LIFE. So, you know what happens to this kid when he is 20, 30, 40, etc. It will look like he molested a 5 year old. Food for thought people. Oh and let’s not forget in Texas alone they are making billions of dollars. Yes billions of dollars for all the fees they tag on these guys. But they can’t get a job or housing due to the scarlet letter. This is what it looks like for our future men, boys, and children.
Aracely’s December 4th post gets to the reasoning behind why these stings are bad public policy and violate police theory and practice. The goal of police theory and practice is to prioritize crimes actually being committed in the community according to their prevalence and effects on the community. Once you prioritize crime in your jurisdiction, you assess your law enforcement capabilities and adjust them to the community needs. These stings are proven to be ineffective and a huge waste of police resources.
The police are setting up “unrealistic situations’ and “creating criminals”.
When police do these stings, they use their limited resources chasing ghosts rather than solving crimes. And in the meantime, the persons who are perpetuating violence in their communities walk free.
Thank you, Aracely
Seems to me the victim never talked to an underage person in the whole process?
The only victims in these sex stings are the vulnerable individuals who were trapped in one of these (and their families). Most of the time, that is the case. They rarely catch real predators in these sex stings. Police and prosecutors purposely lie to the media, the public, courts, etc. They lie to everybody, pretending that they caught child predators and have protected children from “being raped”. It’s a huge lie. They know very well what they are doing. The public eats it up because it’s a fantasy that makes people feel good. There are so many lies involved in these stings. It’s despicable!
It’s much more fun going after ghosts, boogeymen and other scary monsters. Creating more problems with ineffective solutions, Yup that outta keep people safe. When society is run by immoral and unethical people this is what we get.
I need a lot of help stamping out all of the misinformation that appears on this website and others. FAC does comment ocassionaly and it is deeply appreciated when they fact check posts. But like me, I’m sure the moderator doesn’t have the time to fact check every post. Things will go smoother if everyone reads the statutes and court decisions before commenting. If someone puts out inaccurate information, it is helpful for readers to correct it with accurate information.
We are all volunteering our time for this cause and when we have to respond to this misinformation, this takes time from us to help others.
So, did anyone watch this today?
Yes and commented on their YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZ4r9cAFdc
I did! Then I got banned from posting anymore comments on the Dr. Phil FB and YouTube videos about it. I guess I exposed too many of the police’s dirty little secrets and exposed them (police) as liars 🤷🏻♀️
It was also more than one of us posting from the same account.
It was good to see that the show did cut out parts that we had complained about, like: Dr. Phil praising what police had done.
I accused him of enabling and encouraging their unethical, immoral behavior. I also accused him of misapplying these cases to warn parents of daughters about guys like this, when in fact, that has nothing to do with the reality of police posing as pretend minors who are advertising and offering casual (free) sex to adults who are seeking a casual encounter on adult sites. That part, when he did that, was also cut out 👍
Then I also complained about a time when Dr. Phil did not answer my question (Am I in denial?) and a time when he did not allow the officer to answer Jace’s question (If you are looking for pedophiles, why are you sending pictures of adults?) They actually did a really good editing job to make it look like those questions were answered. I am impressed! It’s not how it really happened, but I do like how they edited those things and made it look like it really happened that way. Kudos to them, for that. They really pulled it off! It still didn’t really answer our questions, but oh well!
Yes. Dr. Phil is pro police and admits such. You can find many of the clips on YouTube and Dr. Phil’s website. There are two clips that are not included online. One is from a caller and the other is from the Lawyer who says there needs to be balance in these stings and better plea offerings. Unfortunately they cut out the part where he compared these stings to fishing for sharks and you catch dolphins and you throw back the dolphins. He also noted that perhaps 1 out of 10 they catch could be considered predators. It can be a hard watch because Dr. Phil pushes his agenda (once they say age stop). Guess he has never done online dating/hookup–it is a numbers game. You keep after any contacts until you can figure out if they are real. Yeah these guys went too far and were suckers (majority of them). The punishment doesn’t fit the crime, especially when it is a sting/induced operation. Be careful out there online. There are a lot of liars and trolls.
Anyone interested in this topic should read Judge Noonan’s dissent in US v Black, 733 F3d 294 (9th Cir. 2013). Judge Noonan tells it the way it is. Read it for free at googlescholar. Read his dissent and comment here.
I didn’t get a chance to watch the show but watched the 4 minute clip Vicki posted (thanks Vicki). The clip is an excellent example of what NOT to do when you are arrested. Whenever you are arrested, KEEP YOU MOUTH SHUT. Taking a “lie detector test” is about the most stupid thing you can do.
I hope everyone reads Judge Noonan’s dissent and comments on it here. I would like to hear what others think.
Just to Set the Record Straight, there Exists, internal documents with National ‘Agency’ and ‘Bureau’ that details specifically, that these Schemes (ICAC) are Prohibited by all Law Enforcement Establishments and that these ‘Sets of Protocols’ MUST be immediately adopted….Document dated 2011.
Trust Me!, many are running for ‘cover; right now….I am sure that there is a Member here that will chime-in with the aforementioned specificities!
Please share these documents that you refer to.
TheTruthHurts:
If you are talking about the ICAC standards version that states that police are not allowed to use adult sites for these sex stings, that one is not real. Is it that one you are talking about or something else?
Police are actually allowed to pose as someone seeking casual sex from other adults who are also seeking that, then pretend to be a minor who is seeking casual sex with adults and telling these adults that they are a minor doing this. It’s not something real minors do, but police are still allowed to do this, to supposedly look for “child predators”. 🤷🏻♀️
Police may be able to use adult websites but are they allowed to solicit, lure, or entice or attempt to. My son was caught in operation blue shepherd 2011 which was entrapment as a matter of law. April McCray’s post in Craigslist casual encounters read: Sisters looking for a hot night -w4m – 19 (pcola/destin/pc) Detective McCray said, 2 sisters seeking a man that handle both of us. We are ready for a hot night are you? In the emails sent back and forth were not clear of who or ages other than the posted ages . This was very confusing, in the beginning McCray said, “My lil sis is visiting me for the summer. She is 14, you ok with that?” My son responds “And yes, I’m ok with that as long as you’re of age.” McCray responds, “I am 19, but it is about the both of us tonight. Can you handle it?” My son says I’d have to say maybe tomorrow. When are you free tomorrow & the next day?” McCray responds, “Oh well you sux!!! Why tomorrow” Lisa Broxson Cutler who was a chatter for the Pensacola police department for the Operation Blue Shepherd was asked on the stand under oath (our lawyer took this deposition from her before trial but she was not put on the stand at my son’s trial.) My son’s lawyer asked Cutler, “Did they discuss with you entrapment issues?” Cutler answered, “Yes, that was discussed.” My son’s lawyer asked, “And what do you recall about those discussions?” Cutler answered, “You know, they just warned to be careful and to make sure that you – that it is really open in your discussion how old you are or how old the child is that they will be coming to see. And if they don’t want to come, don’t encourage them to come.” My son’s case was clear ENTRAPMENT AS A MATTER OF LAW but the judge just turned his head. As I said before, it is not just the police who are doing these stings illegally it is the courts also who are allowing them to continue. Corruption all the way to the top.
Aracely:
I wish I had known that you were going on the show ahead of time. I would have sent you judge Noonan’s dissent. They could have reached out to him and got it straight from a federal judge’s mouth. Let’s see what Dr. Phil has to say then.
I wish that too. There are so many things now that I wish I had said or been more clear about. I really didn’t think Dr. Phil himself would miss such a huge point about the reality of these sex sting operations.
I have learned a lot from doing the show. I really had not realized before how difficult it is for most people to understand or figure out that police had advertised themselves seeking, and offering casual sexual to adults who were also seeking that. Many people aren’t aware that’s even a thing. Some adults seek casual encounters online. There are no real minors on these adult sites seeking and offering casual sex to these adults. That’s the main fact nobody is talking about. That’s why anybody who comes across this is very confused and can’t even wrap their heads around it.
The police use psychological manipulation to get their targets to agree to have sex with them and tell them they will. Because it’s difficult to come across anybody on these sites who is not a bot or a scammer, these targets are particularly vulnerable to anybody who engages them in conversation. The problem is that the police make it clear that they are only interested in talking if they are going to talk about having sex. They will only agree to meet if the target agrees to have sex with them and will clearly state that they will have sex with them. Police refuse to meet if it is not clear they are going to get sex from this meeting. Naturally, the targets are curious and interested in meeting who they’ve been talking to. So, they give in and tell police they will do what they (police) want them to do. They do this in exchange to get to meet the person they are talking to, to find out more about what this is all about. This is the only way they can make this meeting happen.
All police have proven is that they can manipulate people on adult sites to say they will do what police want them to do. They have not proven that anybody would have really had sex with a child. They make their targets say they will do this, making it clear they will only meet if its going to be about sex.
This is clearly entrapment.
“Entrapment occurs only when the criminal conduct was ‘the product of the creative activity’ of law enforcement officials.” – Sherman v. United States, 356 U.S. 36
Aracely:
Each person in this cause brings their individual life experiences to the table. You have the unique experience of actually appearing on a national television show. We need to learn so we can build on this experience.
It would be nice if you can get back on the show for Round #2 but the next time, we can all help you be more prepared so you can illuminate the public on how the registry is actually affecting peoples lives, wasting taxpayer money and diverting police resources away from persons actually involved in violent crimes.
We also need to get our experts on the show. Here in Michigan, we have Professor Larry Dubin at the University of Detroit. It would be nice if we could get him on the show. People don’t realize that adults and teens with developmental disabilities are overly represented in these stings and the number of actual predators caught up in these stings is quite small.
I would very gladly do another show on this. I know so much more now about what to say.
I think we need to get a lot of people to start writing in to the show about wanting to see more of this get covered. Tell them about the important issues they missed, how many people are affected by this, how this is hurting our society, etc.
I think if we get enough people to keep writing in to them about that, they will do another show about it.
I bugged them for like 2 and a half years, before they finally agreed to bring me on. If we’re persistent, we can make it happen.
We also need to take advantage and post comments and reply to the comments of others on the videos that the show puts up on YouTube and Facebook (about this show in particular). Many people read those comments. It’s a good opportunity to reach a wide audience and get some information out to them. I kept posting the link to our website in the comments. https://cage.fyi/
I’m doing everything I can think of to get this education out to people.
Unfortunately, Dr. Phil did not fully understand this matter at time the show was taped. There were things cut out (some of his opinions) based on feedback we provided to them after the taping of the show. I really thought I would get a chance to talk again later, to clarify things, but I was never given the opportunity to do that.
Entrapment: Instigation Not Investigation
https://digitalcommons.law.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3421&context=lalrev
Vicki Henry
Excellent post. Very clear explanation.