Clements v Florida at SCOTUS
After seeking a waiver from having to respond, being prompted by the Court to file a response, and then needing an extension, Florida’s long overdue defense to this case was filed.
Clements filed suit claiming that Florida’s lifetime sex offense registration requirement put the individual in “custody” and subject to habeas corpus. Their petition stressed that a person is ““in custody” when subject to restrictions that “significantly restrain petitioner’s liberty to do those things which in this country free men are entitled to do.””
Florida’s defense rests on 3 arguments:
1) that the lifetime registration is a collateral consequence to being convicted of certain crimes and not part of a sentence.
2) that the proper time to file this suit had long passed.
3) that 7 out of 8 district courts ruled that being on a registry is not being in custody. The one ruling that being on a registry was being in “custody”, that state (Pennsylvania) had much stricter registration laws than Florida.
The defense punted on the topic of residency restrictions as something not to be addressed by this review.
The arguments made by the State downplay the hardships of life on the registry. The full range of requirements and frequency to go in person to a registration office are sidestepped. This is clearest with travel. The State argues they don’t approve or deny travel, but no mention is made of the need for in-person registration at the local sheriff for each trip. The State also fails to acknowledge that the burden of the registry grows every few years as new requirements keep being added.
If SCOTUS chooses to rule on Clements, defining ‘freedom of movement’ will weigh heavily on the outcome. Are people on the registry free to move about and live similarly to those not on the registry? That would be quite a debate.
The Florida predator registration became law on October 1, 1993. The sex offender registration on October 1, 1997. So anyone who was on probation or incarcerated prior to 1993 were forced to registered in 1997, even with a conviction date prior to 1993. But it appears that no offender has ever challenged Florida with a conviction or withheld adjudication that was prior to 1993.
I am not going to single out one person on this discussion on this article but there is a principle that everyone is missing in all this registry romper room bs. The spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
This supreme court says that the Clements guy waited to long or he is not under incarceration. So how long does one have to wait for the truth to be revealed? The residency restrictions well we don’t know if within that area that children might be at risk. What a bunch of crap the supreme courts are dishing out to the public scorn another.
Would this resident restriction be like saying a bank robber can’t be living next door to anyone as they might peradventure to rob that household out of all their goods.
This registry and this lifetime of probation is a type of punishment and is taking advantage of one’s true justice and one’s liberty in many ways. Much of this registry is a basic abuse of the commandments, even an abuse of love thy neighbor. Is this registry a man controlling man downfall by government authorities. How ingenious..
I agree, but I’ve also seen the power of the filings I was told by my attorney who was quite respected in my area that there was nothing else that could be done with my sentence when I was in prison and I disagreed, and this guy cost me over $80,000 Yet I was able to work at the law library Pay a guy literally $200 worth of Raman Noodle soup and file my papers with the appeals court, and actually not get a win, but be able to have my previous charges completely vacated and resentenced with the best possible outcome under the situation not all judges are unsympathetic to the mistreatment, false accusations, and bad representation we often get and pushed into plea deals for things we didn’t even do even with my charges, I never dreamed I would have more and more rules, stipulations, and regulations that would affect me for the rest of my life add on every additional year
@Filed
I did the same thing but was held for 3 months without access to law library. Once I did, I filed and judge sent me back a nasty letter stating too much time had past and no re-hearing would be held. I spoke to 12 different lawyers when released and when they heard who the judge was, they declined to take the case.
I entered into a contract with the state of Florida. The state has added clause after clause to the contract long after I signed. Since the state is the one who negotiated the contract in bad faith, I feel that I should be frred from that contract with no harm to myself as I have abided by the terms of that contract.
I feel that anyone else who may also have entered into a contract with the state should also be granted relief from the bindings of their contract as well.
When the state argues that this isn’t right, it should be explained to them that these are the consequences of their actions.
Also, one could argue on any case (driving while intoxicated, just as an example) that one was not aware that it was illegal. When the state brings up that “ignorance of the law is not a defense”, they should be told that WAS true up until they started retroactively applying laws. It should be explained to the state that this is…..
… wait for it…
….a collateral consequence.
Tell me the error of my logic.
Jim
I am adding funds to your campaign for a run for President LOL
If Trump can run with a felony, so can you and you got my vote brother 🙂
(Not trying to throw in politics, just stating we need someone, somewhere, somehow to get us out of the spider web)
* Thanks to all that F.A.C does for us BTW
Jim, I totally agree with you because the State (in making the following argument) is acting in a fundamentally dishonest manner.
But, here is the argument that the state would make in rebuttal (I think), and this has been, unfortunately, upheld by the courts:
The contract terminated after all of the sanctions were performed. (Fines, fees, court costs, restitution, prison time and probation time.)
The contract has been legally terminated because the convenants therein have been performed by both parties.
The fact that one must perform a civil registration (as sequelae to that contract having originally been consumated) does not alter the original terms or conditions of the original contract.
Apples <> Oranges (apples do not equal oranges)
But the state is acting dishonestly because they are saying that the apples are the criminal sanctions and the oranges are the civil (non-punative) sanctions.
But we all know that the registry is, in fact, a (rather severe) punishment.
So, their argument, while currently upheld by the courts, is absurd (nonsense). It is a dishonest, slanted, flawed argument!
I would like to see a discussion on the freedom of movement topic..This isn’t just a Florida issue but a country wide and international issue as well! . The IML which is just anouther residency restriction an not only targets citizens on the registry for banning from country’s BUT also for discrimination and criminal mischief. It also targets legal spouses restricting their travel and restricting whom a person the registry is even allowed to marry!! the entire registry is a torture and punitive tyranny!
@Obvious
I have seen several people who spoke with overseas officials and their reply was It is not us, it is the United States telling us to ban you, we would love to have you but not up to us.
Yes, that is exactly true and I’ve been told many times I was told I was welcome back anytime if I could stop the Alert I was told to come back when it was raining so the computer was down and they could let me in the country was told in Spain twice that they wouldn’t even come to meet me and asked me the stupid questions unless the US had requested it that was one day later they were on holiday. They wouldn’t even come the US funding to many countries. Nobody wants to be the guy that goes against the US so the wink wink denied this guy, but is exactly that I denial , the only time I’ve seen them Look at the notice, and specifically let me in because the US told him not to was Nicaragua! I guess at the time relations weren’t very good, and they wanted to stick it to uncle Sam for whatever the reason
@Been
I use to travel out of country every year and it was always a nightmare coming back. Interrogation, even if my family was with me. Holding me so I would miss my flight home and breaking things in my luggage then laughing at me.
I still endure it until they came out with the denial of entry campaign and that ended it for me and I burned my passport in protest.
If it’s not too late, I could be used as an example. I work for an offshore supply company based in Louisiana and travel for work constantly. Meaning I have to go register in person every time I fly in and fly out. My company has overseas boats as well that I haven’t even tried to work on due to international travel restrictions. Louisiana allows me to send an email when I come and go. I am definitely restricted in my field of of work and if my situation helps, I’m more than willing
@ M.Sturgeon
Blessing to you and your family. You are fortunate to have a good job, many of us couldn’t get a job shoveling manure on a cattle ranch because of our charges/past.
“Most” of us prove every day that we have stayed out of trouble for decades and not re-offended, yet the official’s comeback is “Great, that means the registry is working”. The registry tears families apart and scares neighbors to move for no reason other than the lies the registry portrays against us.
CJ – I hope you tell them that is not proof the registry works unless the purpose is to punish you. I thought the purpose was to stop sexual offense. If that’s the purpose it’s not working at all.
I am sorry but HORSE HOCKEY! I have not set foot in Florida since 2004 (19 years) and still my travel is limited – both domestically and internationally.
The only reason for this is that I am still listed on Florida’s outdated, inaccurate and purely punitive “sex offender list”.
I can’t even use AirBNB because Florida lists me! I have difficulty renting an apartment to this very F^ing day. If nothing else Florida is most definitely guilty of cruel and unusual punishment!
And you and your family (all of us in Florida on the registry) will be punished after you die as they continue to get funding for people registered well after their death. Takes an act of congress, a letter from the Pope and a sign off on it from Judge Judy from the people’s court to get removed even after death. (Being sarcastic but it is in fact that hard to be removed)