UPDATED CALL TO ACTION: Brevard County. Oppose proposed ordinance
[FAC NOTE: This is turning on absurd. Now businesses will be able to order persons forced to register can’t go within 1000 feet of their business?!?!]
As it stands, any person convicted of sex offenses involving minors cannot live within 1,000 feet of a school, child care facility, park or playground. The county’s current ordinance only states offenders cannot be within 1,000 feet from a school, daycare or playground. According to this article, County Commissioner John Tobias is hopeful that list will soon include some local businesses. “It’s an ordinance at the county level. State has a buffer and we’ve expanded that,” he said.
“It would give law enforcement the ability to arrest one of these offenders or predators who are within that 1,000 foot buffer from the business,” Tobias said. [The new ordinance would create a] new voluntary registry, certifying their business is a place where children regularly congregate, which would restrict sexual offenders and sexual predators from coming within 1,000 feet of the business. Opting in is free for a business.
[FAC NOTE: Please take action]
UPDATED: If you are near Brevard and would like to attend the meeting tomorrow, July 21, 2020, it will take place at 9:00 AM at the Brevard County Government Center,2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way (at Stadium Parkway),Viera, FL 32940
For those of you who have the time between now and Tuesday morning, please send an email to the commissioners listed below (or one email to all) stating your opposition to this proposed ordinance:
D5.Commissioner@brevardfl.gov
Other counties will adopt this if it passes in Brevard.
For those of us from out of county, if we e-mail Brevard commissioners, too, will they consider? And if they’ve never heard of us and look us up and we’re on the registry, any chance they’ll still take our views seriously?
Yes – all who oppose this should.
Yes, write today, please! We now have 5 people on the media committee. God is good. Three of us do not live in Brevard County, but all 3 sent emails to the 5 commissioners. A letter to the editor has also been sent to the Orlando Sentinel. Two media members do live in Brevard and have also sent emails. Thank you all! We need as many as possible to contact these commissioners — it does not matter where you live as this proposed ordinance will affect any registrant who passes through Brevard County.
On a side note after seeing the comments here about Ms. Book, for the FAC member on our last membership call who made this request, the media committee has sent a letter to Ms. Book requesting Lauren’s Kids consider helping all children, including those with intellectual and developmental disabilities, by providing appropriate educational material on their level pertaining to preventative ways to stay off the registry. She was also asked to help as a legislator in using diversion methods instead of incarceration whenever a person with IDD is caught up in the criminal justice system. To do otherwise is barbaric.
We are so fortunate to have Media Committee members already on the ground in Brevard. Let’s all take a few minutes to chip in and support this effort today.
And THANK YOU, Media Committee, for pressing Sen. Book on the IDD issue. Let’s see if kids with IDDs are important to her!
Is this another Lauren Book deal or are there even more Idiots in Brevard?
It has nothing to do with her.
Here’s a good source of information on some of the Books’ indiscretions:
http://ronandlaurenbook.blogspot.com/
I appreciate FAC acting so quickly in this. I was blown away when I read the article last Friday.
I sent my email in last night.
I made sure to point out in my email and I feel it’s important for everyone to do the same. There’s no comprehensive map or listing of areas that are off limits for the CURRENT ordinance. The Brevard County Sheriff’s Department will not check addresses for compliance with the current ordinance, I know because I’ve tried. How are we supposed to comply with an ordinance that we have no way of determining the boundaries for??
FAC legal, is this something that can be challenged?
Yes, this is 1000% something that can be challenged and should be challenged.
I am out of county but would be happy to donate to legal challenge if this dumb thing passes. There needs to be better precedent so that other counties will think twice. I’ll bet I’m not alone in this.
If the lawyers feel this is a good one, let’s start funding!
This is probably one where just a real threat of a lawsuit would make them back down.
It’s not something I have to financial resources to do right now. I going to a early termination request hearing in August so after that I’d be more than willing to be the guinea pig for this.
Maybe an issue for the Brevard office of the ACLU?? I know that they generally steer clear of anything that pertains to sex offenders or sex offenses.
Hi Roger. I hope very much that your termination request is granted. Please follow up with us regarding your experiences at the hearing, including anything that you learn that might help others. I have a lot to learn about this myself. Thanks, in advance. And good luck!
Should we point out to Brevard County the fact that Florida’s registry is under fire in the state and federal courts for being unconstitutional on many grounds? How about the case from the 2nd DCA of Florida holding that any person who has not completely fulfilled their sanctions from conviction are NOT REQUIRED TO REGISTER. Therefore, these ordinances are illegal
I know that a statute or ordinance can be ruled as arbitrary or vague if the criminal conduct can’t be clearly defined or understood. In this case the prohibited conduct is clear but is the lack of a persons ability to comply with the law/ordinance because the information isn’t obtainable make it just as vague? Again, FAC legal, your thoughts??
This is a SUPER lawsuit. The challenge is bringing it on a County-wide level because proximity ordinances only exist in a couple counties.
A good lawsuit would have statewide effects in preventing other counties from going down that path. While I’m tempted to think, “my family’s safe because MY county would never do what Brevard does,” such an ordinance is just too tempting for enterprising new county council members throughout the state (and their colleagues who are afraid to oppose them).
Really? Which counties in Florida DO NOT have a proximity ordinance? Anyone? I’d be interested to know how many of the 67 Florida counties do not have this. I actually thought it was written into the Florida State Statutes. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=sex+offender+residency&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.215.html
If anyone has specifics that we can add to an email regarding this, I’m ready to send mine now. I live in FL but not Brevard.
Most counties DO NOT have a proximity ordinance. You cited a RESIDENCY RESTRICTION (can not live). A PROXIMITY ORDINANCE dictates where you cannot go.
If Brevard is to be made safer, law enforcement will need to focus its resources on solving sex crimes and other violent crimes. Yet the county’s clearance rate for violent crimes (including sex crimes) is just 55% (see below).
https://data.naplesnews.com/fdle-crime-report/brevard/2018/clearance-rates/
Brevard cannot afford to have law enforcement resources having to figure out whether the right people are within the right proximity of the right places, or responding to calls from business owners who believe they’ve spotted someone they don’t like. If they do, it will not improve law enforcement’s crime solving capabilities. And given what we know about who is on the registry and who isn’t, it certainly won’t help prevent any new crimes. Instead, it will involve law enforcement in sort of a security theater, where they appear to make children safer but aren’t.
(Feel free to use that).
Does Florida want the state’s registry to be declared unconstitutional? Because this is the path to get it declared unconstitutional.
Good thing the right to peacefully protest in the nude is protected by FEDERAL law. I feel vulnerable with this law in place and feel there is no better way to speak on this issue than to demonstrate with a nude protest in front of these businesses.
Indecent exposure is illegal. I don’t see it persuading members of the council.
I respectfully submit that
We should allow this silly BS to pass into law. – This would be low hanging fruit, and a successful lawsuit could result in enough publicity to bring the craziness of proximity laws to the general public’s attention (Thereby making it them much easier to overturn statewide).
We should stop trying to cherry pick people to get off the registry. There is strength in numbers (even if those numbers are faked by the state).
Look, the more absurd these laws get, and the bigger our numbers grow, the more sympathy and support from the community at large.
We must let the haters dig their own graves, so to speak.
Just my 2 cents.
These laws are easy to enact and enforce, much harder to defend against and reverse.
That’s the realization I came to, after previously subscribing to the “make the laws crazier and make more people register” school of thought.
I am a registered citizen in Louisiana. We already have these exact laws that prohibit Tier 2 & 3 from being withing 1000 feet of many places. I cannot go to a certain auto parts store because it is too close to a school. I cannot go to my old bank for the same reason. I cannot drive down the Interstate at 60mph through town because it passes 850 feet from a school. I therefore must exit, drive through residential neighborhoods at 20mph, then get back on the Interstate after having complied with the 1000 foot school buffer zone. Technically, I cannot even go to my local police office to update my registration because it is 775 feet from a daycare. The law also makes Tier 2 & 3 stay away from a moving school bus, but the schools are NOT willing to provide registered sex offender the school bus schedules so we will know where NOT to be. Last year a legislature had a bill to include that 1000 buffer zone to home schools. I contacted him and asked him if the list of homeschool locations would be supplied to every registered SO in the state… he promptly withdrew his bill.
So, my advice is NOT to allow this law to happen and then fight it afterwards. In Louisiana, it is already in place and no one is willing, or able, to do a darn thing about it. Fight the proposal before it becomes law. Draw up maps of the buffer zones to show politicians the idiocy of it all. Ask John Tobias if he would support an ordinance from any business requesting that Jews not be allowed within 1000 feet. The nazis believed the Jews were the source of all crime and future crimes in pre-war Germany. Ask John Tobias what is next… buffer zones for Christians? Gays? African Americans? Alcoholics? Gun owners? Democrats? Republicans? If this ordinance passes, then it opens the flood gate of a buffer zone for any group deemed “undesirable” by the governmen.
Wow!!!
I feel naive.
I apologize, and I lend my full support. I’ll fight it with everyone else.
I didn’t see the endgame of this.
I WAS WRONG!! THIS MUST NOT PASS!!
In the interest of time this is the draft letter that will go out: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Letter-To-Brevard-County-Commissioners-07202020.pdf
This letter. Wow!
How the hell do we even know where these zones are? What I now have to figure out how to get from point A to B and go around. Can’t walk past? What if my business lays next door to one? What if my family is in there they drop me off down the road and they are attacked so now they assume responsibility of hiring a bouncer to protect my family cause they take my right todo so. So what’s next doctors close the door on us. It’s a bit harsh ARREST. After 25 years… Can’t wait to ARREST someone and remove them from their family’s so we can fulfill law and order. Sound to me the fucking sherif also doesn’t need access to this list along with the public they are talking about harming us and taking us to a very dangerous place To be attacked… so who protects my kids dad? Not the sheriff. We are not free when we are put on a list for people to extort. Here s an unprotected class of citizens make you career based off their past here’s the list. This is a “safe zone” come the fuck on 99 percent of sex crimes are being committed by first time offenders. But people can now advertise at my expense they are “safe” think about this they are gonna allow public companies to promote by taking away my freedom.
That’s exactly why I don’t agree with police department only registries. They’ll still be able to do shit like this even without a public registry. No registries, period.
You are 100%…no, 150%…correct. Once a debt is paid, it’s paid. “Bill collectors’ are no longer wanted or needed.
I am opposed to this new ordinance because of the inconvenience that it may cause some folks. These folks have may a mistake. They have paid their dues. The will be persecuted for the rest of their lives. I know you are saying I don’t care…but think of a couple of instances…
What if your doctor’s office was within 1,000 feet of this business?
What if your pharmacy was within 1,000 feet of this business?
What if you wanted to take your grandkids for a treat and that place was within 1,000 feet of this business?
What if you OWNED a business that was within 1,000 feet of this business?
What if your house was within 1,000 feet of this business?
We could do what if’s all day…
What if one of YOUR family members became a sex offender or predator…how would this affect YOUR FAMILY?
Have a blessed day…
dave
I sent my e-mail on this subject to all of the commissioners, especially Tobias, this past Saturday. I requested an audience with any or all of them. If I do not receive a response by this Tuesday evening I will send them a ‘barn burner’ and there will be no BCC’s. They will get to know exactly who is aware of their actions…or inactions as the case may be. I’m sick and tired of politicians that do not have the fortitude to answer for their actions, especially when those action negatively impact citizens and their families. It’s time to hold them accountable and I am not one to hold my punches.
I just submitted an email to each of the Brevard commissioners. It was not as good as the FAC letter but that doesn’t matter. As long as they get a boatload of emails protesting this with at least one good reason, then they should know that there is a lot of opposition to this nonsense. I urge ever FAC member, family and friends to deluge them with protests.
How interesting can this be.
Last week I was offered a job at the Kennedy Space Station. I was a very good developer while in Florida with 20+ years of design and implementation experience.
But since this garbage State decided to set me up and conceal the evidence, and set me up again, I decided I will never design nor develop nor train anyone ever from that State or with any association to that State.
I rather work for ANY other country at this point. The day I am offered a job visa to move abroad I am gone.
Here is another story on this: https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2020/07/20/tobia-restrict-access-kid-focused-businesses-sex-offenders/5470405002/
I recently read an article by Krystel Knowles on NewsBreak.com about a news item that appeared on Tampa Bay News 9. The title: “Sex Offenders Could be Barred from Certain Businesses, if a Brevard Commissioner gets his way”. Being familiar with Brevard County Ordinance 2006-31, I find it difficult to believe you or any commissioner would waste time discussing a restrictive provision that is already in the ordinance. It almost sounds like an ‘election year’ play. Let’s face facts…the Brevard County Ordinance is based on fear, false information, lack of education on the part of the commissioners, and a false attempt to appear to care about county residents. The whole fear tactic was started when a member of the US Supreme Court cited an article in the AMA Journal…an article that was later rescinded by the original author as not having a factual basis. Let me repeat a few articles from the ordinance:
WHEREAS, the Board of County Commissioners, collectively and in conjunction with other elected and appointed officials within Brevard County, notes that there have been numerous occurrences within the State of Florida and the United States where convicted sexual offenders and predators are released from custody and thereafter commit similar crimes,.. This is a totally false statement not backed up by any facts or studies. Ex-sex offenders…registered citizens…have the lowest recidivism rates of any offenders except murderers. This is a conclusion of numerous studies backed up by fact.
Whereas, it appears that the recidivism rate for released sexual offenders and sexual predators is alarmingly high, especially for those who commit crimes upon children… This is once again a totally false statement. How the term “appears” can be used to establish a policy that destroys lives and families is beyond me.
WHEREAS, Brevard County desires to ensure that the citizens of the county are protected from criminal activity to the maximum extent afforded by controlling law in order to advance public health, safety, and welfare, and benefit the citizens of Brevard County to the maximum extent possible;… Sounds good! No one wants the county to be subject to criminal activity. So I decided to look up the ordinances that: restrict bank robbers from coming within a 1,000 feet of a bank; drunk drivers from coming within 1,000 feet of a liquor store, grocery store, 7-eleven, etc; home invaders from coming within 1,000 feet of a residential neighborhood; drug dealers from coming within 1,000 feet of a school, park, library, grocery store, 7-eleven, etc; car hijackers from coming within 1,000 feet of a parking lot, auto dealership, Walmart, etc; etc. I could not find a single ordinance so establishing these restrictions. So much for the effort to protect the county from criminal activity.
Sex offenders…registered citizens…are soft targets and easy to control. One can claim a law enforcement pay check with very little threat to safety. And politicians can lie all they want about sex offenders…registered citizens…with little chance of being challenged and big political payoff.
I will once again ask for an audience with you or any commissioner to discuss the effects that this ordinance has on otherwise tax paying, peace loving, law abiding citizens. I know it will take fortitude to face the facts and I will want more than a five minute limitation. This is far too serious a situation to just pass off as a quick ‘oh by the way’ conversation.
I have included an outline of my life. It is based just on me, but I am sure there are numerous others who are just as well equipped with a respectable background but are being punished by this ex-post facto ordinance. If you think that the registry and ordinance is not punishment beyond the bounds of the court sentence, just try it on for size for a while. I’m sure you will change your mind.
“The whole fear tactic was started when a member of the US Supreme Court cited an article in the AMA Journal…”
Actually, it was an article in a rag called Psychology Today. –Sort of a Jerry Springer to the AMA’s Walter Cronkite.
But nice letter, dude!
Sounds like County Commissioner John Tobias is worrying about getting re elected.
“Now present day we have a sitting president that has a lawsuit accusing him of raping a 13 year old girl slapping her face and threatening to hurt or kill herself and her family.”
@ROM Do you have a source for this allegation?
@FAC, do you?
Was deleted. I need to do a better job moderating.
Email sent.
Good Day
So as most Registrants know, that during their sentencing, They are read the The Jimmy Rice Act by their Sentencing Judge which means that a Judge can predict the Convicted’s Future….
NOW….The Registrant, is suppose to Predict Areas wherein they are not allow to go…Well, I am not a Fortune Teller, nor are the majority of Registrants
Clearly these are violations of the Commerce Clause, Ex Post Facto, Substantive Due Process, Equal Protection, and in violation of Bills of Attainder and creates Double Jeopardy and additional Cruel and Unusual Punishment
But Tobias(Rep) is running for re-election…This is a person who tried to dissolve his counties Historical Preservation Trust-so He could run things in his OWN fashion-well it failed…He appears to be self-serving ruthless politician….
Hold on Tight Everyone, as this ‘Roller Coaster’ hopefully goes over the embankment!
Because I think we should all know our enemy better, I note that this guy’s name seems to actually be Tobia vs. Tobias.
RayO, you are correct.
Good catch, RayO.
This is body of the email sent to all the commissioners and Dave Berman who wrote the article posted in today’s Florida Today.
Commissioner Tobia,
I am writing to urge you to not bring your proposed ordinance in front of the commission that would create additional “exclusion zones” for registered sex offenders around any business that requests they be added. I read the recently published article on NewsBreak.com about a news item that appeared on Tampa Bay News 9. The title: “Sex Offenders Could be Barred from Certain Businesses, if a Brevard Commissioner gets his way”. This would be on top of, or an addendum to, the existing Brevard County ordinance, 2006-31, which is already in place.
I have several questions pertaining to your proposal that should be answered prior to any action.
How will these zones be defined and how will the information be published so as to allow citizens affected by the ordinance know where they are?
What county office will be responsible for creating and maintaining the list so all locations are current and valid and then provide this information in a timely manner to anyone requesting it?
The existing ordinance, 2006-31, already does nothing to provide this information to citizens affected by it.
Currently there is no listing published showing any areas that are off limits so that registered offenders can maintain compliance with the ordinance.
Because of the very narrow and specific wording and definitions in the ordinance (2006-31) a registered offender almost never knows if they’re in compliance or violation while going about normal activities related to daily life such as getting gas for their vehicle, going to a bank, shopping for food stuffs, visiting family that otherwise would have no restrictions, and other items required to live their, and their family’s, normal lives. As a tax paying citizen of Brevard County the current ordinance even prohibits me from attending scheduled government meetings. How can I, as a citizen, be prohibited from attending government meetings that by law must be open to the public?
The Brevard County Sheriff’s Department SORT unit, which is currently tasked with maintaining the state required sex offender registration duties, will not check an address or location in order for an offender to be even be able to comply with the current ordinance little lone the new locations that would be added to the “list” (which again, does not exist). They will only check and verify addresses for offenders trying to obtain a place to live.
Because none of these, a list, a map, or the SORT Unit providing legal boundaries, currently exist an offender already cannot comply with the existing ordinance.
Not only would there need to be a published list, the commission would also need to direct the County Manager or Sheriff to assign a responsible office to maintain the list, keeping it current, and would also respond to address verification requests so that registered offenders will know where they can, and cannot, conduct daily life activities.
Having an ordinance, whether the current (2006-31) or an additional one, that does not provide the information required to understand and comply with is indeed arbitrary and not enforceable.
Commissioners meeting adjourned, I see.
Am I too optimistic in supposing that this cursed item did not even make it into today’s agenda?
Ok.
I have sent a carefully worded email to all 5 officials. I pointed to the ACLU wins in Michigan and the wins in California by Janice Bellucci and her team at ACSOL.
I reminded them that litigation could be expensive for them.
Do you have the results of the commissioners meeting today? The minutes are not posted yet. It took me about 10 minutes of clicking around the Brevard County government site to find the agenda and then the agenda reference was a vague notation about an amendment to Section 74-102. They did not even have the courage to give a more definitive description of the amendment. Only by using an eagle eye and digging did the intent become apparent. Thank you FAC for bringing this to light.
The reality is that the criminals who need to be monitored are the criminal legislators and other government “officials” who work in/for these out-of-control, huge, nanny big governments. They need to be monitored every day to ensure that they are not trying to commit yet more crimes based on and promoted by their Registry Hit Lists. Criminals like John Tobia are a danger to all Americans. They are serial, incessant recidivists. Career criminals. Must be monitored closely.
The commissioners agreed, by vote, to further discuss moving forward on the amendment. It’s not being voted on yet. You can see the video at http://brevardfl.granicus.com/player/clip/100?view_id=1 — the discussion starts at 2 hours and 13 minutes and lasts until 2 hours and 47 minutes. John Tobia was a complete oaf and the District 1 commissioner Pritchett and District 5 Commissioner Isnardi were annoying as well. The chairman, Mr. Lober, stood up to Tobia, but not 100 percent. Still, he was much more supportive of those required to register as offenders.
Thanks, RayO, for being the first to break today’s suspense. I’d watch the video myself but am afraid it would inflame my hypertension. I’ll ask my doctor first. Annoying oafs in positions of power can create real-life problems.
In the meantime, the good news is we have more time to work on this, and more insight into what each commissioner is thinking.
Yeah … the District 4 guy, Curt Smith, asked only one simple, but good, question. He asked Tobia whether some recent criminal incident was inspiring Tobia to act on this. Tobia answered, defensively, that a registrant in Brevard had been complaining about how tough Brevard was on registrants. Tobia then said that, after researching Brevard ordinances and state law (which he sounded like a true idiot while talking about it), he saw this loophole that allowed registrants to be near places like Chuck E Cheese. Sounds like maybe his real motivation is some kind of revenge on his Brevard constituent making the complaints. Commissioners Pritchett and Isnardi sound like very ‘right’eous ladies who are ready to pass this amendment no matter how harsh it is. Curt Smith sounds like a guy who’d rather not be wasting time with this (though he didn’t make that clear). Commissioner Lober, the chairman, stated that he would vote for the amendment only if it applied to those who register as ‘predators’, but would likely not vote for it unless it at least excluded “romeo and juliet” cases or situations where the offense could have been accidental or not so serious. I think he’d like to see those registered as ‘offenders’ excluded, just to be safe. They discussed how easy it would be for romeo and juliet offenders to just go to court and get off the list (they are mostly a poorly informed and naive crowd of rule makers). Sadly, it looks like it would be 3-2 vote in favor of the amendment, at best, if the vote were to happen soon.
I can only hope that I was the Brevard registrant that Tobia was complaining about. I’ll gladly be a burr under his saddle.
We all know who he was referring to!
I will prepare my response to the commissioners this afternoon. I have a Christian brothers meeting to attend this morning…I’m sure to the surprise of the commissioners.
I watched the commission meeting and there was only 1 speaker, who didn’t present well at all. There was nobody who spoke with any cohesive arguments.
Commissioner Tobia went back to the “They have a high risk of reoffending”. Painted all registered citizens as monsters lurking behind every tree.
No one presented any facts.
Tobia also brought up that “many of these cases are plead down so they don’t reflect the true severity of the offense”.
Believe it or not Commissioner Lober raised the issue of offender vs. predator. Said that crucifying all of them is not the answer. He actually seemed to be reluctant to throw all of us out with the trash.
There were also discussions about state statutes.
We HAVE to determine if we can attend these meetings so we can speak! The only response I get from anyone in authority when I ask about attending a Commission meeting that’s within the 1000’ buffer zone is that they can’t or won’t give an answer. We need to present FACTS AND DATA NOT HYPERBOLE!!!!
The did approve the advertisement of the proposed ordinance.
DAMN
Let’s acknowledge that the one person who spoke was the only person who stood up for his family, and for you.
If you are ready to stand up and speak out, then work on a 3 minute written statement NOW and attend the next commission meeting or send someone who will repesent you. The Membership team will have schedule a separate conference call to help you prepare.
I thought he presented very well. He showed up to speak out and get insulted by Tobias. He’s VERY brave.
I applaud his courage & willingness to stand and speak. I could hear the pain and frustration in his voice. It’s the same pain and frustration we all feel. We all know that issues like this ripple through our entire family and hurt all of us. My family is hurt more than I am because they miss out on things and endure difficulties simply because they choose to support me.
The emotional pain and frustration in the gentleman’s voice were the two things that hurt his presentation. He gave Comm. Tobia the out of saying “Gee, I feel so bad for you and you’re courageous to come speak but we have to protect our little ones. If that means driving a little further to get groceries then so be it”.
I have my notes all prepared to speak but still can’t get an answer as to whether or not I can attend the August meeting and not be in violation of the current ordinance. I’m willing to work with anybody who can help figure this out.
I’m more than willing to put my name on the record at a meeting. If I can work with someone who can go I’ll give them my letter and some prepared answers to questions that we all know will follow. They can give my full name, address and charges, hell, they can take an 8X10 picture if they want as long as it’s somebody who’ll stand toe to toe (respectfully) with John Tobia and not allow him to go unchallenged.
Finally watched the spouse speak. Wow was he powerful. Particularly for someone who is a regular citizen and not an elected official. So I must disagree with the poster who found it not well presented.
And Commissioner Tobia’s response to this citizen was so slick that it demonstrates that he probably already KNOWS the facts about registrants, given all the letters and e-mails we’ve sent him, and is simply undeterred by them. The only thing he DOESN’T know is whether this bill is as politically popular as he assumes it is. THAT’S where he and one or two of his colleagues need to be educated now. If they receive an unexpected volume of letters, calls, e-mails, and meeting appearances from people who oppose the measure, then that should be enough to sway at least one vote in what could be a 3-2. Am I right?
Even if “high risk of reoffending” is true, these types of exclusions are worse than worthless. And no one should ever pretend that big government has even the tiniest clue about who is likely to offend and who isn’t. As a collective whole, big government is dumber than a grade school child.
The facts are that ANYONE could be at a Chuck E Cheese or wherever. If you are there, you are going to have to act like the world’s most prolific child molester is also there. If you don’t, then you aren’t actually protecting anyone. If you think it will make any difference in your risk if big government TRIES to keep out a tiny handful of people, then you are an idiot and you and your family are likely always in danger.
This distinction of “offender vs. predator” is nonsense as well. This type of extra-judicial, after-the-fact harassment has no place for anyone. People have to stop thinking that “this shouldn’t apply to me” but it should to some other person. If you think that then it should apply to you. We know big government can’t be trusted to say who is an “offender” and who is a “predator”. Don’t ever believe they could get that right.
So registrants MAY NOT SPEAK at Brevard commissioners meeting, for fear of violating the existing proximity ordinance?
I had No. Idea.
What a wonderful constitutional challenge this will be.
Absolutely, a good challenge. A reminder that in Derek Logue’s successful appeal of the restraining order that Princess Book took out against him, the 2nd DCA specifically mentioned the proximity restriction was a problem in that her place of employment was the Florida Capitol.
I for one don’t see how such an ordinance can stand against all registrants at all times if it can’t be part of a restraining order by a specific person against a specific person (who, by the way, didn’t even reside in the state).
My other take is that if this idiotic ordinance passes, start an effort to get all friends and family members of registrants to boycott any business who signs up for this registry. While many of them might be willing to do without registrant patronage, not many could do as well (or even survive, in some cases) without those affected by the SO registry despite not being registrants themselves.
Were my county to offer my business free certification as Child Safety Zone, I’d do it.
That is, if I didn’t know what I know now about the registry.
And I don’t think I’m alone in this. Its inherent appeal is what’s so diabolical about Tobia’s creation.
I know Tobia sounds ignorant, but he’s smart enough to deploy that ignorance as a weapon.
“The sex offenders are boycotting my business!” A business owner would find the ability to say that almost as appealing as an official child safety zone certification.
Until we get the public better educated, they’re not ready to understand such a boycott.
A couple of these commissioners are mentally imbalanced. Their obvious desire to torture others and make their lives a living hell to satisfy a twisted desire for revenge makes that abundantly clear.
We are not dealing with sane people. We are dealing with rabid mad-dogs.
FAC, now that the proposal is being advertised, would it help to issue a mass mailing focused on Brevard’s thousand or so registrants? If we’re even equipped to do so. If so, then I’ll drop something into the General Fund for postage (I’d seal envelopes, too, but I may be in the wrong part of the state).
Idk, I’m just splashing around for ideas, but overall, if there’s something we think would be helpful at this phase that would also cost the General Fund, I’ll put something in.
Only thing that will get Commissioner Tobia to back down at this point would be a fear of looking foolish in front of his colleagues and constituents, am I right?
I would recommend so – Check in with Anita in membership. We should do something.
Will either the county or the business be liable, the first time a child is sexually abused within a business that is a County Certified Child Safety Zone? If not, why not?
If I trust a business due to its county certification, and my child is nevertheless harmed, will either the business that was certified, or the county that certified it, reimburse me for my child’s subsequent counseling session and other harms? If so, how?
I am asking these questions recognizing that most abuse incidents statistically will be perpetrated by someone not affected by the new ordinance. Are they even good questions to ask? If so, feel free to use them. I’m not sure what to do with them. Email them to the commissioners?
(Revised to re-post under the correct discussion).
Commissioner John Tobia, District 3
2539 Palm Bay Road
Suite 4
Palm Bay, FL 32905
Commissioner Tobia,
I am writing once again on a subject that you have heard from me about in the past. That subject is Brevard County Ordinance 2006-31. I viewed Tuesday’s hearing on your proposal to modify that ordinance. You justified your proposal using the same old paranoia, innuendo, false information laced justification. To keep you insulated from the truth and facts, Ordinance 2006-31 kept away those who could best talk on the subject using facts from studies and real life experiences. That was actually smart on your part because it kept you from being made to look like a fool. Commissioner Lober seemed to be the only commissioner who questioned the process that was being proposed. The other commissioners seemed rather clueless on the subject. Why you choose to ignore the facts concerning ‘registered citizens’ can only be guessed at but it surely appears to be ‘vote baiting’ to attract uneducated voters who are looking for a ‘knight on a white horse’ to keep them safe from any and all danger…even danger that does not exist. I have not yet heard from you as to my request for a face to face meeting but that does not surprise me. It takes courage to try to support an ordinance and proposed change that is supported only by lies.Let’s take a look at some of the aspects of the current ordinance some of which go even beyond the bounds of the ordinance itself:
“Predator”, someone who practices plundering, pillaging, or rapine. In Florida many have this designation but few meet the qualification.
“Pedophile”, an abnormal physiological condition in which an adult has a sexual desire for children. In Florida that term is used in all cases of child molestation which is a misuse of the term.
“Sex offense”, any action that involves the sex organs of a male or female and can range anywhere from rape to consensual sex between two underage participants to public urination. Any of these events and many more can ruin one’s life…and family…in Florida.
That you or any of your cohorts on the commission can still support 2006-31 is beyond comprehension. You need to have the courage to say this ordinance is wrong and serves no positive purpose. However, from what I’ve seen from many politicians they are cowards to support that which is right if non-support helps them ‘pull the wool over the eyes of an ignorant public”. It takes courage to do what is right. Few politicians have this courage.
I trust you will consider what I have written but I do not really expect that you will. It will take you out of your comfort zone and that is only to be expected.
Sincerely,
Charles Munsey Jr.
Capt USN Ret
321-636-3958
“The time is always right to do what is right” Martin Luther King Jr.
Copies to:
Rita Pritchett, Commissioner District 1
Bryan Lober, Commissioner District 2
Curt Smith, Commissioner District 4
Kristine Isnardi, Commissioner District 5
Thank you, Bob. I am in the process of sending letters (snail mail) to all the county commissioners. The ignorance displayed was shocking. We have a growing number of people in this country in leadership/decision-making positions who lack any knowledge. They speak as if they know what they are talking about when they know nothing. My letters will be addressing all the misinformation they put out there. I cannot even think of anything that most of them said that was actually correct.
We are actually a group that is large in numbers. These commissioners and local news media need to hear from all of us.
To think that they held a meeting to pass such a harmful ordinance to 867 of their county citizens, holding it in a place where registrants are not even allowed to attend without looking at up to 60 days in jail because of a nearby playground.
For those who have not heard what the Brevard Commissioners had to say, start listening around 2 hours 13 minutes.
http://brevardfl.granicus.com/player/clip/100?view_id=1
Absolutely on point! Non condescending and engaging, you have challenged him to be a better person. We should all use this as a starting point to write over and over to them.
Yup … I hadn’t noticed until now that the ONLY 3 Brevard commissioners who definitely want to pass this nasty amendment are ALL up for re-election right now. They are mostly running against Democrats, so they have an advantage, sadly, since Brevard is a mostly Republican county. If you know a Brevard voter in District 1, 3, or 5, encourage them to vote against these idiotic commissioners (Pritchett (dist 1), Tobia (dist 3), and Isnardi (dist 5)).
So all we need to do is reduce those 3 yes votes to 2, while validating the skepticism of the other two. Or hope it will be delayed til after election.
With Tobia a lost cause, it’s Commissioners Pritchett or Isnardi who need to learn what this may cost the county, and how this may make them look foolish.
It’s also conceivable that this is just pre-election posturing that will be completely forgotten about after the election, regardless of the winners.
Brevard Republican voters will have an additional chance to vote them out, in the Republican primary on August 18 (and prior to, for early voters), am I right?
That’s only the case with Tobia, since he’s running against 1 Rep, 2 Dems, and a Write-in (so, he faces two election dates – primary and general). Pritchett and Isnardi are only running against Dems (so they only have to win the general election in November).
Most voters are dumb and in smaller elections just vote for names that they recognize. It does not take a lot of “extra” effort to sway smaller elections. People who are in this county ought to organize to get criminal John Tobia tossed.
Join the campaigns of his opponent(s) and help someone else win. Leave any “sex offender” issues out of it. Find out the other ways they are attacking the criminal and help. The election might be close and it could take as little as an additional 100 yard signs to make the criminal lose. But people ought to act. I’ve done it numerous times. I helped a local mayor lose re-election by just a couple of hundred votes. It was sweet. After the election, I contacted him and told him what all I did, just because of his “sex offender” stupidity. Very satisfying. Vote out the criminals. We must dump criminals like John Tobia who love big government, can’t grow it too big, and can’t have too many “laws”.
Sadly, the Oaf Tobia won his primary challenge as a Republican. So, it’s more likely than not that he’ll be re-elected in the general election, since Brevard loves its Republicans.
This is truly ridiculous. I have been reading about this for an hour or more and reading Gail’s emails has coverered it all. The ordinance is absurd and enforcing it next to impossible. All families of resistrants should boycott any business entertaining entering this pact. The stupidity runs rampant, so one has to conclude ulterior motives drive them.
Don’t just boycott the businesses. Understand that you’ve been shown who and what they are. So harm them by any means available. There are lots and lots of ways to do it and you can do it repeatedly for years. And it should not just be the millions of Registered people and their families. Advertise boycotts and other actions widely and try to involve everyone. It’s the moral thing to do.
AMEN!!!!!
These criminals are violating the civil rights of 1 million citizens off the USA every single day !!!
Yes, they are using registrants as a stepping stone for higher political ambitions. The Clay County commissioner that force my husband and me out of Clay County announced his run for Congress about a month after pushing a sex offense ordinance through our county that was NOT needed. They seem to all end up in Congress. Maybe that is why Congress is so dysfunctional today.
When ‘punishment’ is doled out with no fact or truth to back it up, we can see what we get. Politicians will ‘hitch their wagon’ to any agenda that they can get an uneducated electorate to believe. We must be patient and let our every action prove these ‘vote bating efforts’ to be nothing but the lies that they are. In life, there are times of high pressure or low pressure…but there are never times of no pressure. Our choices during these changing times tell a lot about us. We must live our lives so that when it is time for a politician ‘put up’ all he/she can do is shut up. Patience will win out over a politician’s pursuit of power and dominance.
The following may be useful:
Vagrancy is a crime that is frequently regulated by lawmakers despite difficulties that have been encountered in defining it. Vagrancy laws are often drafted in such a way as to encompass ordinarily innocent activity. In one case the Supreme Court struck down an ordinance that prohibited “loafing,” “strolling,” or “wandering around from place to place” because such activity comprises an innocuous part of nearly everyone’s life (Papachristou v. City of Jacksonville, 405 U.S. 156, 92 S. Ct. 839, 31 L. Ed. 2d 110 [1972]). The Court concluded that the ordinance did not provide society with adequate warning as to what type of conduct might be subject to prosecution.
Second, the void for vagueness doctrine curbs the Arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement of criminal statutes. Penal laws must be understood not only by those persons who are required to obey them but by those persons who are charged with the duty of enforcing them. Statutes that do not carefully outline detailed procedures by which police officers may perform an investigation, conduct a search, or make an arrest confer wide discretion upon each officer to act as he or she sees fit. Precisely worded statutes are intended to confine an officer’s activities to the letter of the law.
Other observations from the commissioners meeting:
Commissioner Tobia got Commissioner Lober to agree to support the proposal, so long as selected offenses were exempt. The exemptions would be offense-based, not risk based.
Kind of a political victory for Tobia, as it put Lober in the difficult position of having to pick and choose offenses that would be exempt.
Commissioner Isnardi, in expressing her support for the proposal, indicated she would have gone even further.
Commissioner Tobia showed that he understands the political calculus, put as “the needs of the 60,000 who have chosen not to offend, outweigh the needs of the 847 who HAVE offended,” as if both populations don’t share common interests.
Commissioner Smith was not present?
Overall I observed more enthusiasm here than I observed in Clay County, which voted 5-0 anyway, but trying to remain optimistic.
ANOTHER PROXIMITY LAW/ORDINANCE ATTEMPTING TO CIRCUMVENT AND EXPAND BEYOND THE SCOPE OF LEGISLATORS INTENT
(948.30(1)(b)), “a prohibition on living within 1,000 feet of a school, child care facility, park, playground, or other place where children regularly congregate, as prescribed by the court.
Ok, so it seems a lot of people are missing his 2 objectives here. At least, from what i’ve read and know about political duckery.
This ordinance is nearly identical to the 1,000ft portion part of the statute, except to incorporate private businesses into the fold of enabling police to make arbitrary arrests.
And obviously, he made that clear, this ordinance is to
“… give law enforcement the ability to arrest…”.
Not Protect anyone, to MAKE ARRESTS.
He merely wants to rearrest law abiding offenders. Though he’d have better luck picking on DWLS offenders, since their recidivisms are much higher than sex offenders.
So its intent, [ HIS Intent ] is not to protect businesses … NOR even children for that matter… its to:
{Arrest Sex Offenders for merely EXISTING in the vicinity of private businesses… for no more reason then, because}.
And if i’m reading between the lines correctly here, in that he held the meeting where the target subjects cant attend & therefore provide Professional, factual feedback on the matter. IMO, for that it should fail. His intent is malicious, deceitful and when you hide behind invisible boundaries to attack a class of people, every nation in the world calls that man, Cowardly.
In reflection of events, seems all he cares about is being able to say,
“I redundantly expanded on an already existing law to arrest sex offenders for existing near any business”.
Which will literally be all he can say. I couldn’t imagine any moral person with a measure of integrity wanting that attached to their legacy.
Though I speculate he thought long and hard about how to circumvent the existing thousand foot statute so that even more of Brevard County would be inaccessible and uninhabitable to sex offenders. Isn’t it about 70% currently?
His short term goal here, seems to be to increase recidivism rates of sex offenders from less than 1% to MAYBE 2% in the county, at exorbitant cost of resources to the cities & county, at taxpayer expense.
If passed, It’ll give people a false sense of security ( like the statute ) And this commissioner will BRIEFLY be perceived as “tough on sex offenders”. Which in these times, with statistical data already obliterating the effectiveness of these statutes, just isn’t impressive.
In light of all that is, the ordinance will be as effective as the statute itself ( Just a taxpayer fiscal burden that even law enforcement is sick and tired of dealing with nationwide )
Which is basically a bunch of restrictions that do Nothing but COST TAXPAYERS and was enacted on the very same false premises in 2002/2004 this commissioner affirms in his innocuous statements.
Does this mean I cannot accept a job if my office will be in the zone?
Today I discussed a meeting place for FAC members at the Warbird Museum in Titusville at the airport. I have known the commander for some time so we had a good talk. He had nothing good to say about the Brevard County commissioners. In his opinion their only goal is to move forward their political careers with justice not in the equation. He said a lawsuit is about the only thing that will get their attention.