Bills filed in both the Florida Senate and House that would allow the death penalty for child rapist
A child being raped could easily be seen by most of society as the most heinous of all crimes. Does it deserve the death penalty? Florida Action Committee does not take a stand on this issue, but there are some facts to consider.
Separate bills in both the house and senate have been filed that would eliminate the requirement for unanimous verdicts by juries to implement the death penalty. A jury vote of 8 to 4 would be the minimum vote required to impose the death penalty.
According to ABC First Coast News, public defender Teri Sopp thinks these bills are a bad idea as “Florida leads the nation with 30 innocent people exonerated from death row since 1973 – one third of the number of people who have been executed…It (the death penalty) is administered unfairly to persons of color, persons with intellectual disabilities, and persons with mental illness.”
Florida statutes does NOT allow courts to consider dementia.
Floriduh will make any attempts to further their punishment on us. This is absurd, that they would even consider it. Death for a living victim offense. I understand that they are a heinous crime, but it’s not a deadly crime. This country, and especially this state has gone to hell.
I am personally against the death penalty for any crime – that aside, Florida is notorious for vague laws. My issue is the scope of the definition of child rape?
To be honest, I’m surprised Florida didn’t propose this a long time ago.
But who wants to bet that anyone sentenced to death under this law (should it pass) will still be on the registry?
Actually, capital sexual battery (rape of a child under 12) has been a capital offense for decades in Florida, I think actually all the way back to the current version of the state Constitution. But there have been two court decisions — one in the Florida Supreme Court and another in the United States Supreme Court — which are referenced in the bills that declared the punishment unconstitutional for this offense.
Interestingly, the United States Supreme Court specifically pointed out that if the penalties for raping a child and murdering a child are the same (i.e., death), then child rapists are more likely to murder their victims since the offender may perceive it as reducing the risk of being caught. It also reduces the chance that some victims will come forward, particularly if the offender is a family member.
I don’t think this type of law will stand under the Supreme Courts decision in Kennedy v. Louisiana.
When I read about some of Florida’s policies, once again I am not surprised. I love living in Florida, but it is some of Florida’s ‘do-gooder’ politicians who make it uncomfortable. We never know from one session to the next what some ‘off the wall proposal’ a politician will come up with. It may sound good, but does nothing to solve anything.
This one should be a collaboration with Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty. Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty http://www.fadp.org Please contact Maria De Liberato at maria@fadp.org and Mark Elliott at mark@fadp.org. Thanks. Capital Punishment/the Death Penalty as much as the Public Sex Offender Registry as much as the Civil Commitment of those deemed Sexual Predators are all Cruel and Unusual Punishments. There are a lot people who are guilty of Homicide as much as those who are guilty of Sexual Assault/Sexual Battery who are Deeply Remorseful and Repentant and Deeply Detest the Harm that they caused. Remember that these are the two groups of Convicted Felons/Returning Citizens that Re-Offend the Least back in Society in Single Digits Recidivism between 1 and 9 Percent. Lets find ways to help Rehabilitate people Convicted of Violent Crimes and Encourage them to become Redeemable Human Beings.
The death penalty is not about justice. It is vengeance. I find the elimination of a unanimous decision in favor of a supermajority will only cause more problems than solutions. I suspect that it would only be a matter of time before the definition of what sex crimes are eligible for the death penalty are expanded.
I don’t see why FAC doesn’t take a position on this issue; It certainly appears that they should stand against these bills.
this is all DeSantis. he said as much in a couple of his speeches. Life in prison or the death penalty. I had no children involved in my case but who’s to say that he doesn’t count anyone under 18 as a child? even those that lied about their age? And people want him to run for president. if he wins look for this all over the country and possibly worse restrictions
The death penalty once done cannot be undone . The same could be said of the many cases of innocent people that have spent 20 or thirty years imprisoned unjustly. Any time spent is terrible. But it happens way too often. These terrible crimes like rape must be punished but if they are willing to make it capital then they must be willing to accept the same punishment of a death sentence if they sentence an innocent person to death.
Sadly, the twisted individuals who commit such acts will now have no motivation to spare the lives of these young victims. Murders and disappearances will likely go up.
I’ve read both bills. They appear to be unconstitutional (for one reason) because they violate the separation of powers doctrine. In the bills, the Legislature has specifically instructed trial courts to ignore existing caselaw of the Florida Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court, which is beyond the Legislature’s authority.
The main difference in Capital punishment (death) and non-capital punishment, at least in the State of Florida, is who pays for the 20-30 years of automatic appeals required by both the Florida and US Supreme courts before you can get around to killing someone. I believe I read somewhere that the average cost for life in prison in Florida was $1M a few years ago. Same person on death row cost over $2M.
It will make no difference in the number of children who are raped.
First, I won’t go into my feelings on what is happening in Tallahassee, other than pure stupidity. Second, Does the rape of a child deserve the death penalty, Absolutlely not. A harsh sentence, yes. If there is an absolute case for severe mental issues, get the person help.
In my opinion, this is another example of unwise legislation, one to titillate the press and public, and validate reelection as tough on crime. Why? Where are the smart people to ask the hard questions to get the right answers?
Age in defining child rape is not a hard line, as seen by the fact that different states and countries have different ages for consent. Most states claim juvenile status at 18, but not all. Some teens look younger or older than 18; how do we process the rape of a girl who is 19 but looks 13? Some see consent based on when to allow marriage, driving or voting. Girls now in our country can chose a transgender or pronoun change at 5 years old without parental consent. Do most think murdering someone is more heinous than rape, or what about other gray areas like sexual assault? Few murderers receive a death sentence. It is easily conceived that a 17-year old girl might have consensual sex with an 18-year old boy, once seen as legal petting or parking in previous generations, and now be tried as a felony with a death penalty; the parents might influence a consensual act as rape when pressuring their daughter, or a death penalty might be given in the case of a rumor or false accusation. The media is awfully quick to condemn a suspect even when evidence is circumstantial. Books are rampant on the errors of our plea bargain system and the corruption of local prosecutors for winning, not justice. Are there not adequate laws and sentencing standards that already allow processing of the rape suspect? FL is not the best lead in this example, as it boasts the most draconian and human rights violations of its Registered citizens in all 50 states. On what studies do legislators base their belief that the threat of a death penalty will dissuade the commission of that crime? There are none.
Bob, Joe. The act of legislation is written for children 11 and younger who are victims of sexual assault/sexual battery and not for adolescents who are victims of sexual assault/sexual battery.
Why not take a position? This is obviously a terrible proposal fueled by growing hatred of Persons convicted of sexual offenses, AND could allow death on a mere 8-4 vote? This should be the easiest “we oppose” ever.
Capital cases usually have a unanimous verdict requirement and this should too as all other cases are. Shouldn’t be a death penalty consideration to begin with but Ron seems hell bent on being nuts with his political stances.
Important to note: These bills would NOT be retro-active. Only for new crimes committed on or after October 1, 2023.
This is why they are not being actively tracked by FAC Legislative Committee.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1297
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1297/BillText/Filed/PDF
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1342
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1342/BillText/Filed/PDF
Well, now they are.
Legislative Session starts this week. Here are the first calendars:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Calendar/2023/Daily%20Calendars%202023-03-03%20153327.PDF
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/HouseCalendar/finalizedmeetingnotice.aspx?mode=week
I encourage you all to follow each week’s proceedings
https://www.flsenate.gov/
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/default.aspx
I thank FAC for not wading into this issue.
I’m not a fan of the death penalty for several reasons. It cost more than life, there have been cases where the state was wrong, and if a punishment needs to be so severe that death is considered why not let them live old and die alone. Some charges deserve life, or if they are going to give the death penalty, death. If a child is genuinely raped then life should be the charge. I’m actually more in favor of longer sentences and no public registry. The pubic complains about light sentences for sex crimes because the judge uses the registry as punishment. With the registry we are doing life on the installment plan. So, sure death but preferably life for true rape of a child. I see no issues with it
Florida has been undermining the right of the accused in cases dealing with children for decades. I believe the accused no longer has the right to face his accuser. The alleged victim can now testify via camera. This makes it even easier to manipulate children to say what you want then to say as they don’t see the person they are accusing and are not told what will happen to the person that they are accusing should they be convicted. They may think it is a relatively harmless thing they are saying because they are manipulated. It’s definitely witness tampering, but the state gets away with it as they have sole access to the alleged victim from the moment the accusation is made. Add the impaired ability to defend yourself to the death penalty and what will you likely have? Even more people taking a plea bargain as to risk life is one thing, to risk death is totally another.
Another point to be made is that at least with murder there is a dead body. With child rape you don’t even have that. It could just be a nasty divorce or some other custody thing. But once the accusation is made, you are guilty. You likely will have no bond which means no job which means, unless you are incredibly lucky, you will have an overburdened public defender pushing you to take a plea. And don’t give me any crap about physical evidence. There was zero in my case. They claimed I touched inappropriately and charged me with capital sexual battery. So, entirely based on someone’s testimony, you could be on death row.
There is way too much room for innocent people to be killed in order for this law to be allowed to pass.
Jim
You are so right on which I can testify to in my own experience. The kids that made up the accusations against me made up a story to keep from getting into trouble for messing around on private vacant property. Which I think was not something they came up with on their own but was suggested by someone else. The accusations weren’t even of contact but seeing me naked in my house through a small window on the side of my house. But I was never allowed to find out what they were doing or what they saw because a gag order was immediately filed. So they could not be questioned by anyone else. So I was never allowed to find out for myself what was going on.
There was no physical evidence ,no accusations of contact, no opportunity to even find out what they were saying so I could defend myself. All I was told is , I was charged with Lewd and Lascivious. Whatever that means . So vague it could be applied to almost anything without any evidence. Since it was all based on hearsay their word against mine I had no choice but to plea or risk going to jail.
Now that these then kids are around 40 and would probably not be afraid to tell the truth , I can’t find anyone that would be willing to question them and take it back to court, because lawyers tell me , because I plea bargained I cannot go back to court.
The system is rigged. So now what was originally a misdemeanor, no mention or knowledge of a sex registry, is because of constantly changing laws, I’m now classified a tier 3 with no chance of removal from the registry and all its restrictions. Reporting in every 90 days plus the month of my birthday and 6 months after,or go to jail. That is sometimes 6 times a year to the police station 20 miles away.
And should it somehow pass, there needs to be an immediate injunction before this law is used to pressure anyone into a plea bargain after which, if this law is struck down in the courts, they would not be able to receive relief because the took the plea.
Florida law already allows the death penalty for rape of children 11 and younger on paper. This was struck down by the state Supreme Court in 1985ish (and a similar Louisiana law was struck down by SCOTUS in 2008). So now the mandatory sentence for child rape in Florida is life in prison without the possibility of parole. Although I doubt that the average person in Florida is remotely aware of this, I’d expect the governor to be more knowledgable of this stuff than the average person.
I’m not sure what the legislature is trying to accomplish. They’re just changing Florida law to what it already was.
I’m on the fence when it comes to my opinion of the death penalty. I don’t see it as a deterrent. It certainly deters the convicted person from ever doing it again, but does nothing to deter others. That’s why all states that have the death penalty still have people who commit murder. The death penalty, in my opinion, is just a way for the state to “get even”.
Having the death penalty as a punishment for child rape is not going to stop future child rapes, just like current laws on the books in every State is not going to deter future crimes.
The forcible rape of a child is indeed a very heinous crime and the guilty person needs to be severely punished, but I think the death penalty should be reserved only for those convicted of murder, sedition, and treason.
Ever since the federal government’ got involved in this in 1994 it was an open invitation to all the states and politicians to add to it and a free public band wagon to gather more votes. None of the laws have saved a single child only ways to help politicians get votes without doing anything but sponsor a bill they can sign their name to. Even the SCOTUS has shied away from it because if they take it up again they would have to admit to how they screwed it up the last couple times.
The State of Florida’s 9 Cruel and Unusual Punishments.
1.) Florida’s Sex Offender Registry.
2.) Florida’s Career Criminal/Habitual Felony Offender/Repeat Offender Registry.
3.) Florida’s Death Penalty/Capital Punshment.
4.) Florida’s Natural Life Sentencing Without Parole of Naturally Life Sentenced Offenders. (Natural Life Sentences Should Have A Maximum 25 Year Cap.)
5.) Florida’s Civil Commitment of those deemed to be Sexual Predators.
6.) Florida’s Civil Commitment of those deemed to be Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity.
7.) Florida’s Direct Filing Against Minors to Prosecute and Convict them as Adults.
8.) Florida’s use of Minimum Mandatory Sentencing.
9.) Florida’s use of the Indefinite Closed Management/Indefinite Solitary Confinement of its Incarcerated Persons.
Let’s not forget #10 subjecting the people to sheriff Grady fudd and those like him droning on and on about all those they entrap in they’re bs. stings and how great they are.
Egregious/Outrageous Conduct-Entrapment isnt a Cruel and Unusual Punishment its an Illegal and Unconstitutional Tactic to get people Wrongfully Convicted.
Patt
A few weeks ago I came across “29 things rich people have no concept of and if your not rich it’s incredibly infuriating “
# 16
“That we don’t have the same rights as rich people. I mean yeah the same laws apply to everyone ,but not everyone can afford lawyers or are able to skip work to go to court. And landlords and bosses Know this and will drag any procedure as long as possible until you quit.”
I can testify it’s true and might add prosecutors also know this. When I was charged and going through court they kept postponing it 3 times and 9 months. I would have to take off work plus pay my attorney for the day , just to get to Court waiting for my case just to find out the prosecution had it postponed. After the third time and 9 months later ,I caved in and plea bargained . My job was at stake and lawyer bills were mounting out of control. Much cheaper to settle than to keep fighting. Plus my attorney told me I had no chance of winning because the judge wouldn’t believe my word over theirs.