Devastating blow in the 11th Circuit as long-awaited decision in McGuire is released
The decision in McGuire that we have been waiting for for 7 years came out and it is very unfavorable.
A copy of the opinion is being shared before we even had a chance to read and digest it.
More to come.
FAC, don’t rush to analyze the whole thing. Take your time. Have a drink first. Then talk it over with our attorneys.
I just got off the phone with them and there are distinctions that offer hope. I’ll do a deep dive tomorrow, but it would be irresponsible to say or do anything until I’ve actually read the thing.
I’ll read it, but first I need a drink.
This sickens me…waiting 7 years for this – what a joke!
I guess they don’t consider having to sleep under an interstate as punishment!!!
If Hell is real, they’re going to be a LOT of judges there.
Well, that wasn’t very nice.
This isn’t good for any registrants in the 11th and 7th circuits since Judge Ripple was sitting in this case by designation from the 7th circuit. Have there ever been any decisions in any federal appellate court that view that registration scheme as punitive?
The 6th
As stated innmu post, Judge Ripple sat by designation from the 7th Circuit. See https://ballotpedia.org/Kenneth_Ripple
it’s because this law is not voted on by the public, and has no one person to take blame. Did you expect anything different under those circumstances? Who has the guts to march in the state of Fl? I’m ready. THAT is the only hope for a start.
I will.
I am the registry in Florida for the past 23 years. I have not lived in the state of Florida for the past 16 years of those years. As I am not required to update my info there they are currently showing false info for me as well as nearly 40,000 others.
What good it that doing the fine people of Florida? Protecting them from what exactly?
I will not be returning to Florida to march. I want Florida to let go of me as I have nothing to do with that state other than being listed on their inaccurate hit list (just like 40k of the 80k listed).
New Supreme Court jurists Ketanji Brown Jackson said a time is coming when you need to address the registry issue. Here is her chance hopefully the gentleman appeals the decision and the court agrees to hear it.
My thought exactly!
Couple bright spots. Notice that they left open the question of whether banishment zones (think Brevard, Seminole, Clay) would have been constitutional (pp. 44, 48). Same for certain SORRs that are so extreme as to cause mass homelessness (see p. 48 and contrast Montgomery with Dade).
I see that overall what made things difficult for plaintiff was the precedent that an ex post facto challenge is inherently facial rather than as-applied and therefore requires “clearest proof” (!) of traditional-type punishment of all registrants.
But I’m still going through it and have gotten halfway.
It’s a bad ruling, but let’s resist the temptation to accuse the panel of being corrupt nincompoops or whatever.
I agree there making rulings based on the false facts about recidivism and the registry . No court likes to be wrong in it opinion nor does it seems that it wants to know the real truth of it all. The truth hurts and so called smart people making decisions about your life don’t like to be corrected even with undisputable facts. False, fake ,hateful information sales even in the minds of the courts. 👀
As usual, not punitive simply because the legislature didn’t intend it to be. Under that standard, what would these judges consider enough to deem punitive despite intent?
And outside of new registry laws, since when does intent outweigh outcome?
How is the collateral consequence of prison time for only this class of people not punitive?
people act shocked over this decision.. YOU will NEVER have freedom in America and millions more will join you until the number rises high enough and the threat of violence is imminent enough they have no choice but to protect themselves from the monsters they have created.. read a history book ounce… It was the same for the blacks and every other group that has had their day in the demonic eye of the American corrupt system..America loves its slavery and witch hunting. It has never ended either..It has only changed the names and criteria for who to claim as slaves and witches.. With its voodoo science and witch doctor psychology it can convince even the otherwise most rational into fits of vigilante rage and a desire for blood shed against any whom the state deems as undesirable slaves and witches..
“America loves its slavery and witch hunting”
America is obsessed with justice, punishment and “getting even.”
Spite and hate seems to be one of America’s shadow pastimes.
Just look no further than society’s twisted fixation with “true crime” porn. Just look how hat new “Dahmer” show is raking in millions for Netflix. Seems like America loves to be tantalized and partake in the “highlight reels” of unspeakable acts. This also explains why the registry is “popular” among the masses – it allows the curiosity seekers animosity to partake in the escapism value of being shocked, and afraid.
One thing that sticks out at me is how the courts had downplayed the difficulties RCs face when seeking housing throughout the course of this case. The court pointed out the US District Court “found that these two restrictions made approximately 80 percent of the City of Montgomery’s housing stock and 85 percent of its jobs off limits to registrants. But many registrants were able to find housing and jobs in Montgomery nonetheless. Of the 430 registrants who lived or worked in the city, the court found only three were homeless. And approximately 50 percent of these registrants had jobs. Although this meant that roughly half of the Montgomery registrants lacked jobs, the court noted that this number included some registrants who were not actively seeking employment.”
For one. you’d think that only 20% of housing and 15% of jobs are theoretically open to an RC in Montgomery AL would be alarming, but not to these courts. While Alabama can technically no longer force the homeless to stay in jail beyond their sentences, I’ve had a few folks claim they’re still doing it or implying they can.
Also, homeless doesn’t always mean living under a bridge. If you stay in a shelter, or you’re couch surfing, or staying at a homeless camp you might be at a static location but you don’t have a home. And how many are truly stable? Are some holed up in a hotel? Also, if you stay under an overpass just outside the city limits you aren’t technically IN the city.
The chronically homeless in general tend to be nomadic. They don’t stick around where they are harassed or lack resources, so even a homeless registrant may opt to move elsewhere.
That part of this ruling already angers me. Essentially the courts are saying the same nonsense Ron Book has said when he denied his residency restrictions created the homeless crisis in South Florida.
Probably not coincidentally, only a few hours after TPM wrote a story calling them to task for taking almost a decade to decide it.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/feature/mcguire-strange-eleventh-circuit Yes! I was thinking the same thing. The ruling was not decided for seven years then Fl action committee mentions the case, this site runs an article then they release their decision. It feels to me that it’s related why wait 7 years to issue your opinion if it this.
This nation was founded on the principles of liberty for all.
The mere circumstance of having to report travel to anyone (while under no sanction) is odious to the extreme! — It is a contradiction, and it is repugnant!
I am not advocating for nor threatening extremism or violence when I say that someone may, someday, show very clearly what punishment is!
(Do you see how polar opposites can be easily interchanged; how black can be made into white through written words? This is what these dogmatic liars do! They feel that the ends (“not a single child”) justify their perjury (“it’s really not meant to punish”)
We don’t need to threaten these dishonest hearts. We simply need to promise them a different future than they might expect!
Their perjury is written on their foreheads and, for those who’s heart is justice, plain to see.
Bill of attainder.
+
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state, and the right to leave any country, including their own, and to return to it (Article 13).
(Everyone except people like Mr. McGuire).
From this decision it seems that all a legislature needs to do is to declare a law to be a civil regulatory measure. Any “rational” relationship can be backed up by any flimsy out-of-the-mainstream study.
Ed C
That is also what stood out to me. Hidden behind 81 pages of decisions mostly poor. Saying it’s just a civil inconvenience because that was the intention of its creators. That’s like saying a person who kills or injures someone while drunk didn’t do anything wrong because his intentions were just get home and he was too drunk to walk. His intentions were good.
Homeless people having to check in up to 56 times a year. Then you say that is not punishment. What world do you live in? Their mentality is showing. Maybe that is why Alabama has one of the lowest average incomes in the country. I know that wasn’t very nice but after 7 years this is your best. Give me a break.
I read through the apellate decision. While I am not an attorney, these appelate judges are Neanderthals. They should be removed from the bench and put out to pasture. Their rulings are based on a study that has only shock value and has been discredited because it has no factual basis.
Will this be appealed?
This IS the appeal.
I’d also like to point out the court was wrong to rule the state ID marks are “moot.”
Yes, Alabama removed the scarlet “CRIMINAL SEX OFFENDER” marks from the front of the ID Card. But there is still a mark on the ID. As with FL (at least with those labeled as “offenders,” not those labeled as “predators”), there is a code on the card.
A mark is a mark, whether it be in bold scarlet letters or a code, or a symbol. If I posted the symbol that Prince used, most people would know what that symbol means. And anyone can go online and find info about the mark.
While true, a mark as compelled speech is just that, the mark is the least restrictive as the court sees it for those who are labeled as offenders. I’d like to see the predators issue taken on by the horns under the same compelled speech premise.
What was the vote? The 11th circuit is one of the worst for civil liberties.
Ok I read it was a 3 judge panel, including (weirdly to me) a judge from the 7th circuit. Very depressing.
I believe I have initially misread about three judges from the 7th when it is only one, Judge Ripple, from the 7th. Ooops, my bad.
I noticed to that registered persons are not the only ones that are unhappy with Alabamas judicial system. The SCOTUS will soon take up there decision to re-divide up districts in an effort to take away voting power from persons of color. The Supreme Court has Alabama in its cross hairs thanks to the efforts of ACLU. Hopefully they will discover the full extent of there biased political system.