IN: Out-of-state registration requirement does not violate ex post facto
An Indiana appellate court has decided that requiring an individual with an out of state conviction who moves to Indiana to register as a sex offender, even when the registry didn’t exist in Indiana or in the state of conviction, does not violate Indiana’s Ex Post Facto constitutional prohibition.
The court analyzed whether the Legislature’s intent was to create a civil, non-punitive regulatory scheme, then considered seven factors to ascertain whether the registration requirement was so punitive as to transform it into a criminal penalty. They found that it was not.
You can read the opinion here: https://public.courts.in.gov/Decisions/api/Document/Opinion?Id=xPxjpsq5FraaH0Y9Mu5xmXGsYIxuEk9u0am-OIs0rrHSatATI_uIfqp_WNPc-1SY0
It seems that Appellate Courts in Indiana are not very bright. But they can be vindictive.
In my opinion if all these issues are Civil in natire everything should be fined based! How can you have criminal penalties for ANYTHING related to SO and say its not Punitive!!!! Jesus Courts wakr up
you made a nice point there.. Can we get this into the Ex post facto motion we have in court now? that is a good argument.. if they insist is not punitive and just a civil commitment or remedy, then why the penalty is criminal? it should be a civil penalty like getting a ticket. Can someone shed light on this?
Thanks
I agree if it’s non primitive in nature and not punishment why is it in the criminal division and treated as a crime if the legislators intent for the registry not to be primitive or punishment then why enforce it in the criminal court and call it not punishment? Criminal court are for punishing someone for a criminal act period. If the registry is so benign and not causing any problems as they believe then why not let a different department handle this non primitive piece of legislation that is not punishment
TO: Just asking
Because the gods(they think they are) in the courts are like our parents when we were kids. We would ask our parents if we could go down and play at Jimmy’s house and they would say no. When we asked why, the answer was not an answer at all. They would say “Because I SAID so!”
This is the same mentality with Some judges, the power goes to their head and it simply just does not matter if it is punishment, if they rule it is not, then good luck getting that reversed. If the supreme court State or Federal wants to say an apple is not a fruit but a vegetable, the dictionary will have to be updated.
I do not want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but they know it is punishment. In fact by telling us it is NOT punishment, is punishment in and of itself. It means many of us will be on the registry for life even if there was no registry when we were arrested or sentenced.
Judges in general see us as pariah, the lowest of the low. In my opinion, they would give a known terrorist a break before us. EVERYTHING to these certain judges is non punitive to them. If it is not punishment, how does a non punitive sanction IE: the registry, send us to prison for possibly longer than our original crime/sentence, for a minor registry violation?
I have seen people on this forum state they missed registration by one day because the registration office was closed and they are sentenced harshly. And when people shoot bullets into our homes, not because we have a felony record, but because we are on the registry, nextdoor and other shame lists.
My advice, if you ever get off the registry, do not move from that state as many have been added back on when they moved somewhere else. Take the win and don’t tempt fate.
The justice department should be held liable for this.they are implementing a non primitive non punishment piece of legislation that it’s not punishment by the legislators on admission .they said it was not intended to be punishment but the DOJ has made it 🤔 umm
So let me understand this ruling: if you have a conviction from another state, say Florida, and move to Indiana, the court ruled that you still have to register in Indiana. Is that right? Well no kidding. My conviction id from Illinois and since them I’ve lived in Missouri, Minnesota, Florida, and no Arkansas. And of course I’ve had to register in all of those states.
Cant blame the person for trying though.
Another no surprise outcome. I have nothing further to say.
If the registry is non-punitive, then the state can not use it to restrict one’s life…right? I respect those who have the responsibility of a judgeship but, there are times that some judges need to get their heads out of the ‘up and locked’ position. Their judgments are not based on constitutional law, but on an effort to support public ignorance of a subject.
If it’s not punishment, why do people plea to a charge that does not trigger a registry offense? I mean it’s only a civil regulatory scheme, it’s not like navigating a minefield every day and trying to figure out each state statute, county law and city municipal codes that you need to understand in order to see if you are allowed to be in their “public area”. It’s punishment plain and simple. It should fail the first part of the test therefore nullify the courts argument.
What part of the Twilight Zone are they from in Indiana. Not punitive? Another State in denial!
Hey all, backwards FL just passed a law that they probably don’t realize can work to help our community.
It is now illegal to picket at someone’s residence. Check it out:
https://flgov.com/2022/05/16/governor-ron-desantis-protects-floridians-from-protests-outside-their-homes/
Anonymous
There is a loop hole though. They can be asked to leave from in from of your home, but then set up in front of the entrance to your neighborhood and be legally protesting. They can stand there at the entrance with signs with your name and address on them stating what a horrid person you are.
Also they get a warning to leave in front of your house and can only be arrested if they refuse to leave. And once the cops leave, they could simply have “Group 2” with different people take over who have not been given a warning and, well you know the rest of the story.
Additionally, as former law enforcement myself, and as a registrant, I can tell you, a large portion of law enforcement are going to look at protestors in front of an official’s home a lot differently than that of a “Sex offender”/ registered person. Every time my neighbors call the police for a crime on our street, 3 or 4 patrol cars show up. When I call, I am told to file a report online.
“This bill recognizes the right of privacy, safety and peace that we all deserve in our own home,” – State Sen. Keith Perry of Gainesville
I find that statement outrageous and hypocritical seeing how the registry requires our address, photo and name to be blasted on the Internet which basically circumvents all that.
In theory, it could help when people protest outside a registrant’s home. In practice, it probably will not. The Florida website says:
“Once this law takes effect, law enforcement officers will provide a warning to any person picketing or protesting outside of a dwelling and will make arrests for residential picketing only if the person does not peaceably disperse after the warning. Residential picketing will be punishable as a second-degree misdemeanor.”
What are the chances of any Florida sheriff dispatching deputies when a registrant complains of protesters? No warning given by police means that no violation occurred.
Something that almost never works and, like all criminal activity, is NOT recommended:
https://kfor.com/news/local/wife-accomplice-screenshot-857-child-porn-photos-to-frame-husband-before-upcoming-custody-battle/amp/
Thanks for posting this. I recently tried to express to someone else who posts here that this does happen. The other person said I was minimizing CP. More people need to be aware that a lot of us were in fact framed for CP.
Sadly, as in many court decisions involving sex offender registries, the judges failed to put themselves in the shoes of the registrants and consider if they feel like they are being punished. That’s what the word “punitive” means, that it punishes someone. It does. Believe me, it does punish. And just when you begin to feel accepted by the community, the registry makes it easy for someone to dredge up your past.
I noticed that Indiana courts are using a 7 step approach in deciding whether their laws are punitive. 7!!!! Using 7 steps shows just how far the courts are going to justify these punishments that are called regulatory registries.
A 7 step test huh? But if a registered person who is supposed to maintain a distance of 1000 feet from a school takes 7 steps inside that imaginary boundary, he is then punished by being sent to prison. But that’s not punitive, right?
So we need to stay 6 steps ahead of the law to keep from being caught? LOL
Funny but not funny. So many traps have been set for us. I remember when the registry first came out. When I went to the sheriff’s department for the first time, they had no clue of what to do. So a detective took me back into an interrogation room and had a 100 point questionnaire that took two hours to complete.
I suffer from migraines and that day I had a bad one even before stepping into the building. It was so bad I had to force myself to not vomit and the stress of the unknown made it even worse. Even more embarrassing was, I had to force myself to not cry in front of law enforcement. (They would enjoy that for sure).
The good news was, at that time, you only had to do an initial registration plus another if you had any changes or updates. And of course the patrol cars would come by the house more often than my probation officer did.
Jumping forward, 25 years of changes and add On’s have made the registry so punitive, harmful, shameful, dangerous, and embarrassing, that you have to peek out your window before leaving the house to make sure the coast is clear. WHO should have to live like that?
And the worst part, for many of us, it is for life with no chance or way forward to relief. This even after it was applied retroactively.
Again how on earth is it not a test if something is Punitive it causes a person to be Imprisoned? I can see a fine but Jail and prison are both Punitive recourse in any common sense . It should be the golden rule test
I moved to Indiana during the height of COVID stuff from Florida. Overall I’ll say that where I live it has been pretty ok. It’s a smaller town so I’m always on edge because the registry is public. I was an offender in Florida and they label me a predator. There is an appeal process there but I don’t think I can do it alone and no attorney I’ve contacted said they would help and just referred me to three info I already had. I think the ACLU here was working on something regarding that, but don’t quote me. This decision really hurts. I’m hopeful one day to be off the registry because it doesn’t work. I did my prison, and probation. I would love to be free one day. But really I’m not, this is just probation with check one every quarter instead of every month. If I didn’t follow the rules, or check in the punishment would be prison, not a fine. I don’t understand why it’s so hard for a judge to look at the rules and say if a person does not follow the rules there is punishment. That punishment is not a fine, civil like a speeding ticket. It would be jail or prison, like let’s say vandalism. Except one is an intentional act with a victim. Violation off the registry by creating an account to learn about a new hobby and simply forgetting to go down and update the information with the sheriff. No victim, unintentional, mistake. But the vandal probably will have a punishment that is far more reasonable than the registered person.
This is so, so bad for my mental health. I’ve shared my frustration and how it starts me down the wrong side of the mental road before. You have been kind and supportive. But really… How long am I supposed to live like this. How is it fair? I wish people would at least listen to this. Maybe just try to explain to me has any of it makes sense.
It is not surprising to see this ‘legal gang’ exercise opinion to come to a legal conclusion rather than the Constitution. Why do you think politicians are so concerned with who is on the court? It is opinion that wins the day…not truth or facts.
Im sure some Bizzare legal explanation exists! Can any legal experts on this forum provide some insight so us lay people can understand how and why the courts dont see any of thos as Punitive? What happened to if it walks like a duck acts like a duck its a duck! . Open and obvious: “both the condition and the risk are apparent to and would be recognized by a reasonable man . . . exercising ordinary perception, intelligence, and judgment.”
There is a song that describes this situation the best
“Blinded by the light”
Its very wrong. I already took a “Deal” for something I didnt do served time to avoid the Probation. In my case no Restitution No SO probation! No Regular Probation! Early release for so called good behavior and yet rhese ever changing Restrictions are like a lifetime Probation in regards to living and Travel. They continue to exceed anything that I was subject or told about in 2010 its keeps getting worse. When will it be over?
Progress requires compromise, victory requires sacrifice. We must stand strong, defiant, and braver than we have ever imagined!!!! Nothing in this country that was righteous and just ever happen by words. Four students had to day in Kent State before someone realized the Viet Nam War was a government motivated manipulation!!!!