Bad Decision out of 6th Circuit – SORNA obligations continue beyond state obligations
Yesterday, The 6th Circuit issued a disappointing opinion, holding that a sex offender’s obligations under SORNA is independent of any duties under state law. In other words, even if someone’s obligations to register under STATE law have been terminated, if they are still subject to registration under FEDERAL law, they must continue to register.
This creates a confusion, since there is no “Federal Registry” to register with, only the state. As for Florida, since our requirements go so above and beyond the requirements under SORNA (we call it SORNA on steriods) this has no current impact.
It’s time the Federal Government came in and created a uniform registry with uniform standards, or better yet, it’s time the Supreme Court abolished this mess altogether.
Not surprised at this convoluted process. Gun laws in some states are very similar. While you may have your gun rights restored under state law, a felony prevents you from owning or possessing one under federal law. There is also this pesky issue with states rights.
Other states other issues. For example, I bought a pellet gun to keeps squirrels and rabbits out of my flowers and garden. No problem under federal law OR state law. State law changed a year or so ago and now under state law, it’s a felony for me to own a BB or pellet gun (gave the gun away). The law….POWPO…possession of a weapon by a previous offender. I now have a wrist rocket and a bag of marbles. So far the squirrels and rabbits have absolutely nothing to fear but a shortage of food and I am loosing my marbles. Seems like in the area of loosing marbles, we all have company with state and federal law makers.
What state made this idiotic change?
In MI, where registration’s on hold pending new legislation, all the legislature needs to do now is pass a replica of FSORNA, amirite? Or is it more complicated than that.
I am just a 3 short years away from being able to petition Florida to come off the registry. I currently know I am looking at 10K for legal and the closer I get the sharper the egg shells I walk on are. I know there are a few more years and lots of legal decisions that might be made, but how might this decision affect someone attempting to get off the FDLE registry?
The good news is that it says that if the state doesn’t have you register, you have a valid reason, an affirmative defense, for not complying with the federal law. But it still leaves you at the mercy of the laws in other states if you travel, even though you are no longer registered in your home state. Now if the US Supreme Court would ever do the right thing and hold that registration IS a punishment, we wouldn’t have to worry about SORNA unless the conviction was in a federal court, which is how federal law SHOULD be applied. Since it takes a crime to get on the federal registry in the first place, it should also be required that the crime be proven beyond a reasonable doubt as well.
The fly in that ointment is that any state would certainly be willing to make you register again just to keep their registry bloated and the SORNA grants coming.
Typical of one bureaucrat not knowing what another bureaucrat is doing. For example, when I went to Virginia Beach I went to check in with the police department. The officer at the desk asked me what I wanted her to do? DUH!!
“We conclude that none of these arguments have merit ”
Really? That’s hilarious considering the AWA doesn’t offer ANY intrinsic value or tangible benefit in promoting public safety. Here. I’ll say the silent part out loud. All these decisions upholding this boondoggle are done to save all the low-stress, cushy pie jobs that SORNA provides, not the children they so proudly proclaim they’re protecting.
I would even go so far to say that SORNA is retaliation, vengeance and spite work masquerading as “justice.”
What is wrong with his lawyer who made constitutional arguments without seeming to consider precedent?
We did not make that mistake in Does, but lawyers like this keep making the Does lawyers’ job harder, don’t they?
And it looks like he selected a family member as his lawyer?
It isn’t punishment even though it looks and feels like a punishment.
You still are bound to register even when you are not bound to register.
What more do you expect from a country that drives on parkways and parks in driveways?
I have read through this several times knowing all too well the pains of both federal and Florida (lifetime) registry requirements for myself. The RC in this case is being given a gift of sorts because the 6th Circuit delineates his affirmative defenses for noncompliance with federal registry law since he is no longer required to register under Michigan law. That is, he can’t go to a FBI field office or any other federal LE office to comply with federal registry law because there is no process for him to register at a federal agency. He has that as an affirmative defense.
So does this decision, by the 6th circuit effect Does v Snyder when the 6th Circuit already found that Does v Snyder did in fact violate the ex pos fact clause, and that the 2006 and 2011 amendments could no longer be applied to pre-2006 and 2011 registrants like myself,. Scotus basically agreed with the 6th circuit when SCOTUS denied cert.
When Trump is reelected we should ALL ask him to repeal anyone who has been registering for at least 10 yearts to be able to STOP.
Dont assume Trump is going to win. Putting politics aside, no president will care about this issue.
Trump is promoting QAnon, the extreme right wing conspiracy theory that revives the previously debunked Satanic panics of the 1980s; he also signed FESTA/ SOSTA which was sold under the guise of stopping “sex trafficking.” On the other side, Joe Biden helped pass many of the federal laws from Megan’s law on to the AWA.
Whoever wins , we will lose.
Yes Derek, we hear you on that. But obviously sex “trafficking” vs what many of us were convicted of are two totally different issues. It’s like convicting a cocaine USER as a drug “trafficker”. They’re not the same. Trafficking involves making some kind of living/income/profit from the deed. I agree that no president will abolish the registry as it would bring about even more enemies than they’d already have. But since he’s doing all this “reform”, perhaps he can have some kind of influence over reforming the registry to people who are habitual with breaking laws regarding sex. One timers should not be on for 10 yrs or life. He could also influence the states to actually do evaluations to determine if we f*cked up vs meaning true harm.
Did you see the RNC last night? The woman who Trump pardoned that was serving LIFE for drug charges? When you have the bible thumping conservative right talking about “God” and second chances, you’ve got to use that right back at them the same way you gotta use the “ no discrimination” idea right back at the liberals. There is hypocrisy from both parties and always has been. But I think if we pulled the correct heart strings of the “like Christ” crowd, we’d stand a better chance.
Just because I’m an atheist doesn’t mean I have forgotten the stories in the bible. And “Jesus” was accused and convicted and executed no different than the witch hunt they have out for us. People see a news story of someone just being arrested for something and in the public’s eye, that arrest means “guilt”. Remind them that Jesus was ACCUSED also.
We can’t just sit back and NOT at least try. Especially with Mike Pence being a holy roller. Get to him, also.
Anti-“sex trafficking” laws frequently are anti-prostitution laws that are passed under the guise of stopping sex trafficking.
Laura Book proposed an anti-“sex trafficking” law a year or two ago that would have created a public registry of johns who were convicted of having sex with consenting adult prostitutes. The bill actually passed one of the 2 legislative chambers, but thankfully didn’t quite become law. I forget if the bill was rejected by the other chamber, or if the legislative session expired before they could vote on it.
” It’s time the Federal Government came in and created a uniform registry with uniform standards, or better yet, it’s time the Supreme Court abolished this mess altogether. ”
I’m hoping for the latter more so than the former.
Who must register under federal law? Someone who has a conviction in a federal court, or everyone convicted in any state who moves to a new state?
This concerns the 6th Circuit. If you are no longer required to register under your STATE’S law, but would be required to register under SORNA (whether you have a state or federal conviction), you would still be required to register according to SORNA.
Please disregard my last comment, i guess it is not simple. I found this:
https://smart.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh231/files/media/document/final_sornaguidelines.pdf
to Al in Jax
I’m not a lawyer, but from what i read in the above document (section II, paragraph C and Section XII) :
if you have “3 short years” left before you can petition I guess you are not been designated “predator” , and will have have been released for 25 years at that point (although don’t count on them not raising it to 26 years one day before your time, and on and on, the already hosed us by raising it from 20 to 25 years plus every other state and even SORNA apparently toll from date of release from imprisonment, yet Florida tolls from release from sanctions including probation or parole.)
Anyhow, in the above document it states the requirement to register under SORNA is 25 years from release of imprisonment. So if you are eligible to petition Florida you would have to also not be required to register under SORNA (At least that’s how i see it).
Good Day
There is NO SORNA Federal Registry
This Current decision will create counter State Jurisdiction Lawsuits, until SCOTUS gives this Standing!
There are numerous Procedural Due Process Violations in the aforementioned!
What about people in my shoes with cases like mine? I was convicted in CT of a misdemeanor that was exempt from registration, did my probation in MASS, which made me register because I didn’t fight it. That registration was for 10 years expiring 12 or 13 years ago. I moved to Florida in 2005 not thinking about consequences. In 2008 AFTER I closed on my house I get a call from Lee County saying I was in violation. The detective said because I was on the registry in MASS I had to go on Florida’s, what a crock of bull! The only good thing that happened at that time was I did NOT get arrested due to violating the law. I have a great job, make good money, own my house outright but still carry this burden of having a dark cloud over my head at all times. My conviction was in 1996 and it did not carry the stipulation of registration . Is there any way out or am I stuck? I considered moving back to New England but I would still be on the Federal list because of Florida losing any opportunity for survival. I have been extremely fortunate having very little debt and having a debt free home, just looking to ditch the anchor. Thanks for letting me vent!
When were you removed from probation?
Probation ended in November of 1999. The probation officer in CT said, you’ll come twice a month for a couple of months then once a month and after he first year I don’t want to see you, stay clean and build a good life. I move my probation back to Mass the same day to be near my family and kids and and BAM!!
And… I’ve been free of Massachusetts registry for at least 10 years… I went up for vacation last January, and when I called Mass SORB to tell them, the response was.. OK, you have not been required to register here for a long time, enjoy your visit..
If your conviction if in Florida you cannot escape it. Other states will want you to register for life because that’s what Florida is. The scotus has said it’s ok. Recently the decision that said the intent is not punishment, so it’s ok. Even if you moved and could petition to be removed from their registry, you will never get off from Florida. I hate being doom and gloom but this is just the reality. Maybe one day… I don’t care about that. I want to be free now. How are we supposed to live like this?
OOPS!..THEY MADE A HUGE DOO-DOO!
This may, get standing with SCOTUS, as this, will get mentioned using appropriate legal maneuvers!
….’Stay Tuned, News at Eleven’
Dear Truth Hurts, what do you mean by saying they made a huge doo-doo?
I remembered listening to lawyers saying what a bureaucratic mess this is because there is no system in place to accommodate this. Meaning that after the state is satisfied with your registration obligations and will no longer accept further registration there is no place to go to continue to register under Federal guidelines.
Nothing confusing about it at all. Shows the court is as corrupt as the congress and is in bed with them.. No division of power.. Next step will be the legislative or the executive branch will issue a federal registration list and even more onerous restrictions.. And now the supreme court toilet wont even have to hear it.. They can kick the can like they do everything else and “claim they’ve already ruled on it” Watch for it..
We have far too many ‘do-gooder’ politicians and judges who have no clue as to the results of their actions. SORNA was a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to a single problem and has since become a ‘hot potato’ they do not know how to handle. Not surprising. It’s doing business in the blind as normal.
Article VI of the Constitution has a Supremacy Clause which states that federal law has supremacy over state law, so even if a State law disagrees with federal law, federal law wins, so this is nothing unusual and where there is no State law federal law applies.
However, a State can disagree with federal law, as in some cases where marijuana is illegal according to federal law, but some States have legalized it.
In those States, marijuana is still federally illegal, and if you are caught by a federal agent possessing it or using it you can be federally prosecuted and go to jail regardless that the State has made it legal.
SORNA is federal law that all States are required to comply with, so when you register, you are complying through the State to a federal law.
I don’t believe there will be 2 registries ( state and federal), but only the State registry whereby you register according to federal law, and if there is none, then that is between the State and the federal government and the State would have to create one.
If none is created, you cannot register and are not liable to prosecution.
In theory, if there were actually such thing as a national sex offender registry, and the national sex offender registry had longer periods of registration than some state registries, there wouldn’t be an issue here.
The problem is that there’s no such thing as a national sex offender registry. There are federal laws that set up a framework for sex offenders the federal government recommends states follow, but it’s ultimately up to states to follow that framework. And most states aren’t following that framework (the Adam Walsh Act) nowadays.
If you’ve completed your time on the state offender list, where the hell are you supposed to register under this ruling? And what registry would you then be listed on? This is imprisoning people for breaking a law that’s literally impossible to follow.
This is a bad result, but like FAC said in the article, it has no practical impact for most Florida registrants. My 25-year duty to register under Federal SORNA will expire in 2025, but I won’t be eligible to petition to be removed from the Florida registry until 2030. This is because the clock on the duty to register under Federal SORNA starts to tick upon conviction (or release from prison, if you were sentenced to prison instead of probation) but in Florida, the clock doesn’t start ticking until probation has ended.
It would be a blessing for us here in Florida if the Florida registration rules were changed to match Federal SORNA. Many of us would get off the registry much sooner, while others would actually get the chance to get off at some point since many Florida registrants who have to register for life under Florida law with no chance for relief are categorized as Tier II offenders under Federal SORNA, which “only” requires registration for 25 years from initial registration.
“It would be a blessing for us here in Florida if the Florida registration rules were changed to match Federal SORNA. Many of us would get off the registry much sooner, while others would actually get the chance to get off at some point since many Florida registrants who have to register for life under Florida law with no chance for relief”
This is an absolutely true statement.
Yes , Some of us could get off these Blacklist sooner than 20-25 yrs I reach my milestone of 9 yrs arrest free. Next month, It is not easy having to walk away from people running their Fu#k Boxes or trying to get you arrested because they are too chick$hit to step to you.. I just thankful nobody has the courage to put their hands on me Because I be going to jail. The sad part it is not the people who live in the area . It is the other people whose family members who are also Register citizens .. I guess they feel they have better charges than others, The landlord don’t care crap we get new people like every 60 days in my apt. complex well here hoping and wishing for the best
I thought all Florida registry convictions were allowed to apply for removal after 20 or 25 years?
With all due respect, I disagree. Petition Florida for registry removal all you want, it WILL NOT be granted. Well over half of its registry is either dead, incarcerated, or no longer in Florida. The odds of them de-registering someone simply because they are statutorily eligible appear non-existent.
Curious to know exactly how many people have been removed from Florida’s registry. I’d be comfortable betting that its not a 3-digit number. And that those who were had friends in high places.
Several have been removed pursuant to 943.0435(11) might not be in the hundreds yet but definitely several
what about the DOJ Rule 72 issue?
Hi Viki, what is DOJ Rule 72? I can’t find anything on it.
Hi RM and all,
Grace & Peace- : )
You made an interesting point about the SORNA-Federal registration requirements begin the year of sentencing. For me it was 1994, thus is has been 26 years ago. It sounds like I am now not required to register under SORNA, or would I have to petition a Federal court to not have the duty to register under SORNA? If so, how would someone go about this?
For the Florida requirement, at the time of my release from probation in 2002, the registration limit was 20 years, which would make me eligible in 2022. Does all of this sound like I am understanding the issues?
Thanks for your support and response!
Correct. You can petition in 2022
Florida extended the minimum length of registration from 20 years to 25 years in 2007. The change applied retroactively, somewhat needless to say.
Since Fl doesn’t counting time until you’re off probation, you’ll have to register until at least 2027. Even then, there’s no guarantee you’ll be allowed off the list. You get to petition to get off the registry after 25 years, but it’s up to a court to grant the petition.
You are not correct about the retroactive application of the change.
Why is it an issue to register if your not violating in any way you shouldn’t worry about registering. Also its not the guys that happen to catch some messed up sex charge like mutual sex in a car or pissing on a bush and they shoot straight forever, its the stats showing us that out of those weak offences many re-offend in a worse way, so its a better safe than sorry situation. Id rather a grown man deal with registering, than a kid deal with being victim because we didnt take every approach. sorry not sorry.
Several reasons. So many IN PERSON registration requirements mean you need to take a half-day off work to go down to the registration office to report and forego pay. With your information online it’s nearly impossible to find employment, housing or reintegrate in the community – these are all factors that undermine rehabilitation and destabilize an individual triggering re-offense. An unknowing or unintentional misstep of a non-crime (ie: missing a registration date by a day because you unknowingly forgot) lands you in prison for up to 5 years. Collateral consequences such as residency restrictions and proximity ordinances that limit where you can live or be present. And vigilantism! People use this list as a hit list.
Also, the empirical research shows that these registries don’t work. 95+% of offenses are committed by someone NOT on the registry. Offending has no relation to physical proximity – just relational proximity.
OkieAttitude, let me see if I have your mode of thought down correctly? If one has a sexual failure in life then to protect society that one needs to be made known to the public for a lifetime. There is always the possibility there could be a repeat so the registry needs to be meticulously maintained even if history would indicate that likelihood is out of sorts. Therefore, the outside possibility of a recurrence makes it necessary to destroy a life and usually a family. Let’s look at it from another angle. I have been flying for many years. One day I read that airplanes can crash. Because of that possibility should I quit flying? The same goes with driving a car. There is a world of events that can go ‘south’ in our society. Does that mean we should avoid anything and everything that offers a threat? The registry represents ‘threats’ that almost never pan out. My airplane sits in the hangar and my car in the garage because of what might happen. In the meantime I get hit by lightning of which I was totally unprepared. The registry actually represents those least likely to commit an offense as 95% of offenses are done by those not on the registry. Do we need a registry of those not on the registry? It’s all craziness!!
You are misinformed. MOST sex offenses are pupotrated by someone in or close to the family. In fact you are 5x more likely to offend on that kid you spoke of than anyone I know on the registry. Plain facts from hundreds of studies yes, even the DOJ. It’s not the “registered sex offender parents shouldworry about. The data also shows that sex offenders as a whole re-offend at right around 3%, the L-OWEST recidivism of any crime. Now, I am a highly decorated Marine Corps Major I have a bronze star 3 purple hearts, I have led Marines into the jaws of hell just so the devil knows that a Marine is tougher than he is. Now, mine was consentual sex with a 17yo when I was 24. They Didn’t come after me until I retired from the Corps. So, I have spent 23 years fighting your wars, do you really think that you are more entitled to freedom that I? I earned it with a few pounds of flesh alot of blood. And years away from my family. And you act like the 10 years I did in prison was not enough. You don’t deserve the freedom that I earned. So, you hide behind your keyboard and run your mouth. You are so ignorant to the truth that you make a perfect little sheep. Go on now, little sheep, run along now, before us wolves get you.
Bravo Zulu!!!
As a former Army captain and officer of paratroops, I applaud you and your response.
Veritas (oh, and Semper Fi).
I can understand your thinking okie, but for the registry to hand the possibility of infinite imprisonment over one’s head for any kind of violation they seem worthy, is plain nuts. This doesn’t even get into the fact of country wide discrimination they face in regards to housing and employment, let alone government and state laws restricting when and where you can go, live, work, what kind of work, who they can visit or visit them, civil commitment for indefinite, indefinite probation, etc. No other crime carries even 1% of these kinds of regulations other than people on the registry, and there’s a less than 10% chance it will ever occur again. The punishment of the registry, does not fit the crime in 99% of all these cases.
Shame on you. My son is on the registry and he is intellectually and developmentally disabled. He’s like a child. Someone told him to expose himself and he did. He did not know it was wrong. I am the one who has to register him and I am the one who has to live the registry with him because he does not understand. There are many, many people who do not deserve this punishment.
cnes that is a nightmare scenario for many of us.
If you have a chance, I hope you have the opportunity to connect with LRIDD (Legal Reform for the Intellectually and Developmentally Disabled), which was on a conference call with FAC not long ago.
Well and the interesting thing about this case is that he WAS on the registry at first by his own doing (mistake!) and then a judge ruled for him to be taken off. So then he’s arrested via the federal statute for not registering? What’s he supposed to do, show up and and beg them to put him on there. I guess that’s what he did cuz he’s right back on there. I tell ya, we gotta be careful about this kind of stuff – be absolutely sure when and where you have to register. Sometimes we don’t have to and we end up causing ourselves a whole lot of unwanted issues. I’m out of state, i registered when i first moved, but was taken off by a judge’s order and do not register any longer. And then FOR ME when i do come visit my fam in Florida I RISK IT. and i know that is not for everyone, but i also know that I register with Florida for a stupid 4 day visit that will start a whole chain of events that are worse than going to prison. BUT THAT IS ME.
This makes no sense. There’s no such thing as a national sex offender registry.
How can you have to register if your home state has let you off they’d registry? Are you supposed to go to the nearest FBI office and register or something?
And what registry would you then be listed on?
Let me get this straight. If you are lucky enough to live in a state where you can actually get off their registry, your name will still turn up on a NSOPW.GOV search IF your period of registration is shorter than what SORNA deems the minimum?
So if you are a Tier I “offender” your minimum duration is 15 years after incarceration, but your duration can be reduced to 10 years with a “clean” record. How and to whom do you apply for a reduction???
Dear JZ,
You wrote: “So if you are a Tier I “offender” your minimum duration is 15 years after incarceration, but your duration can be reduced to 10 years with a “clean” record.” Where is this in law? I’m out of federal prison for 8 years as a Tier 1 (with a clean record). So I might only have 2 yeas to go according to what you posted. Just need to know if this is correct. Thanks
This is straight out of SORNA.
Bill,
Here’s SORNA:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2015-title42/pdf/USCODE-2015-title42-chap151-subchapI.pdf
Duration is discussed in § 16915.
I find it odd there’s no reduction for Tier II but there is for Tiers I and III.
I don’t remember. I had 3 years probation, Nov 1999 I think
Very comprehensive document outlinine SORNA and proposed changes – link sent to me by my lawyer. Quite scary: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/08/13/2020-15804/registration-requirements-under-the-sex-offender-registration-and-notification-act