It’s time for law enforcement to step in and stop vigilantes and opportunist “predator hunters”
They give themselves names like “Dads Against Predators”, “Predator Snatchers”, “Predator Patrol” or “POPSquad”. They are groups of vigilantes who admittedly intentionally stage bait operations to lure individuals to locations thinking they are meeting a minor for sex, so they can film them. The videos are then posted to social media sites, such as YouTube, where the vigilantes cash in on advertising revenue.
Predator Poachers, a group started just last year now has over 160,000 subscribers, Dads Against Predators boasts that it’s videos have more than 800,000 views and POPSquad has put up more than 160 videos. The groups think of themselves as guardian angels for children, but law enforcement is strongly opposed to them. The reasons their tactics are a very bad idea are obvious.
First, the public only sees the “take down” but knows nothing about the tactics that were used to bait their targets. Were they in an adult site where there would be no expectation they would be chatting with a minor? Did they pull a bait and switch, pretending to be an adult and then introduce a pretend minor who the target had no interest in meeting? Did they induce, encourage or entrap the person into conduct they had no interest in? Or, did they manufacture the entire “crime” to begin with just to produce a video? Second, there is no concern for the safety of the target or themselves for that matter. What if the confrontation turns physical? What if unrelated bystanders get hurt in an altercation? What happens if someone pulls a gun? Also, these stings are almost always useless to law enforcement or prosecutors because they don’t follow required protocols.
This article discusses one group’s tactics and you can see clearly where the bait and switch is:
Around mid-December, about two weeks before Christmas, Bee and Austin began the usual process, starting with a Grindr account with Bee’s picture (“I’m 19, but I look 15,” he says). In minutes, a 49-year-old man named “Adam” hit up Bee looking to meet Bee and “his brother.” “You gonna suck my dick tonight,” “Adam” messaged. “I’ll do whatever you wanna do hahaha,” responded Bee. “What about a threesome,” “Adam” said. “I’m sure he’ll be down,” Bee said.
They would meet in the bicycle section of the Walmart, as Bee suggested, where they had hid a camera on a nearby shelf. In the video it captured, a white-haired, bespectacled “Adam”—really an Akron-area teacher—strides up to Bee, hands pocketed. “Are you the guy? Adam?” Bee says, visibly anxious. “Do you wanna head outside?” Adam whispers. “So, what do you wanna do?” Bee, says, rubbing his chin.
Twenty seconds later, Bee’s crew rushes “Adam,” sticking their phones in his face. “What are you doing here, bro?” Bee shouts in a deeper voice. “You know I’m fifteen, right?” Adam scowls, aware he’s been busted. He throws up the hood on his windbreaker to hide his face and walks coolly to the exit. As he does, Bee screams to shoppers in the aisle, “Watch out, everyone! He’s here to meet a 15-year-old boy!”
Wait… did he say the “usual process” is to go on Grindr (a site whose Terms of Service state in capital letters, “NO USE BY UNDERAGE PERSONS. NO PERSONS UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN (18) YEARS (OR TWENTY-ONE (21) YEARS IN PLACES WHERE EIGHTEEN (18) YEARS IS NOT THE AGE OF MAJORITY) MAY DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY VIEW, POSSESS OR OTHERWISE USE THE GRINDR SERVICES. YOU MUST BE A LEGAL ADULT.”? Did he also say “I’m 19, but I look 15”? So he baits someone to a Walmart under the guise that he’s meeting an adult, but then accuses him of coming to meet a minor?
The article continues that when the school district saw the YouTube video the put him on administrative leave and removed him from the classroom. So an individual who was on an adult site, thinking he was meeting a consenting adult, gets accosted in a supermarket, shamed online and his career placed in jeopardy, What if he wasn’t out as gay? That’s a personal choice that should not have been taken away from him and forcibly outing someone is a violation of their privacy.
The article also continues to tell of another situation:
A few weeks after Jake’s video was posted on DAP’s Youtube channel, Joshua called me panicking. The day before, he did a catch with a man who was a well-known driving instructor in the Fremont area. The catch was surprisingly quick: He was waiting in his car outside Jay’s old house—waiting for sex with a 14-year-old—when Joshua rushed him with his camera on. The man sped off. “He told me, ‘I’ll be dead in the morning,’” Joshua says. The next day, Joshua received a frantic call from the Fremont Police: The man had hung himself in his living room.
There’s enough wrong with police stings that amateurs shouldn’t be conducting them and posting them to social media for profit or to become “internet famous”. It’s time that law enforcement stepped in to stop them.
The Dr. Phil show did a show on this which aired last December. Turns out that the guys that were doing this had drug problems and were even high when they were doing this. Seems like doing this was just another high for them.
One of the guys who was doing this was even accused of using a decoy (partner) who was accused of being an actual child predator. That means the person supposedly catching the “child predators” was one herself, just like that officer in Florida who was running these sex sting operations. Turned out he was the one.
https://youtu.be/Yeaz4odF_GI
The best solution to these sex scam operations is to avoid the sites. Find something productive to occupy time.
People should not have to stay away from dating sites no more than anyone had to stay away from the old school Newspaper classified ads for dating. Why weren’t police doing these types of stings back then? I met a woman through those that turned into a 5 yr relationship.
With a world of people out there, there is no telling who someone’s perfect match would be. Singles looking to meet other singles should not have to fear that they are going to be entrapped by some pissy cop who’s mad that the new employee at the donut shop didn’t give him his Public Servant discount that day.
People are free to access any website they want, but just be vigilant. I have been very fortunate in that I have never felt a need or been required to visit such websites to get to meet people. It is my desire to never give law enforcement the opportunity for misconduct…or any self proclaimed ‘savior of the public’.
I have a rather hilarious threat from Alex Rosen from Predator Poachers after I added him to my AZUnites vigilante watch. He also tried impersonating a lawyer to threaten me to remove my article about him; he then got google to take down my post about him less than 24 hours later.
Interestingly, Google has allowed a certain vigilante to use my name and likeness while making the most outlandish claims about me, so Goohle also has double standards.
Because Google are run by leftist communists. They silence/censor most conservative opinions. The left has a huge double standard (as if we didn’t know that). They’ll be more than happy to allow the use of their platform to degrade someone in a situation like ours yet at the same time they remain silent and censor any mention of top Democrats who have been to Epstein’s island. Imagine that.
One democrat who wanted to vote against the registry isn’t enough. The MeToo movement is a man hating leftist and feminist movement that will NEVER stand for abolishing the registry.
There are plenty of right wing nutjobs silencing our activism too. This is a bipartisan effort and both Dems and Repubs have passed laws against us.
Question from someone who has never been on a dating site like these: Do the sites bear some responsibility for not properly vetting the person who joins as an adult but then later falsely claims to be a minor?
These groups want nothing more than Facebook likes and to stir up the masses. There’s a group here in NE Florida doing these “stings” and they have zero regard for the families of their targets. (I believe they go by ACE) They did a sting video at this guys home, and they headed the video with some nonsense about “we made every effort to not show the family” and not to “harrass” the family. And yet, 2/3 of the video was of the wife reading the texts between her husband and the “bait” and another unknown family member openly sobbing and at one point their minor child(she went into the home off camera soon after the video starts) I should also note that at no time did this guy attempt to leave or hide his face, and yet the camera was focused on the other family for the majority of the video. My heart broke for the wife and child, being humiliated in that way and when I commented on the post how wrong it was for them to do that, zero sympathy from those who bothered to reply to my comment. Made me sick and just reinforced the blatant hypocrisy of those who think that was acceptable, especially concerning their minor child. Now, I will say, this guy was an idiot, this group had done their homework and had proof he was told not once, but 3 times that this” bait “was only 15, (they had printed the text messages and he didnt deny any of it) and yet he still invited her to his home for sex. But it absolutely doesn’t excuse the humiliation this family experienced. It still makes me angry.
I’ve been saying the same thing for the past 5 years now regarding the idiotic reasoning that a person who goes to adult sites or chat rooms are somehow child predators. It’s pretty doubtful that actual, bona fide child predators would be trolling adult sites on the off chance they’d run into a minor, more so for a prepubescent in circumstances involving actual pedophiles. Personally, I think the public’s tendency to conflate pedophilia with underage, but post-pubescent individuals is another major misconception that needs to be addressed.
I really wish this article had a comment section. These guys are stupider than the LE agencies that do the same thing.
Dustin, you are precisely on point about language. Pedophilia is a precisely defined clinical term in the DSM-V. It is not valid to misuse the term in public discourse. As I said in a previous post regarding language leaking from its original context:
The term “pedophile” is one particularly relevant term. For example, Jeffrey Epstein is consistently referred to as a pedophile. He may have been many horrible things, but he was never accused of nor diagnosed with pedophilia. His victims were not prepubescent children, which is the core requirement for the diagnosis. Yet in public discourse, and in the media, this very specifically defined term is used only as a pejorative and has descended to the status of a “dog whistle.”
Fight ignorance wherever it is found.
Veritas.
I agree, what these vigilantes they are,
predators them selves…….
but we all do know well, the guy that meets up with a minor has bad intentions
I wont defend either 1 of them cause they are both wrong in there actions.
At least these groups being criticized for not adhering to investigative standards shines some light onto the topic and raises questions about what the actual standards are. From my research (and quite possibly from this site) there is a loose set of standards that investigators are to abide by. But getting a current copy of those standards and procedures is almost impossible. I can only find outdated ones. The Dr Phil link shows how the self righteous beliefs and actions of these individuals/groups lack a level of insight into the criminal justice system. To think that their good intentions can make up for an investigators decade of experience and training is laughable. But so is the tactics of investigators often.
Happened to me. Went to meet someone who was 19 on an adult site. I went to meet for coffee and was jumped by six guys accussing me of wanting to meet a 15 year old. Not once did i believe i was meeting anyone underage. I was facebook shamed and received death threats like you wouldnt believe. They told people where my family worked and encouraged the harrassment. I agree predators need to be stopped…but if you really think someone is a predator then why feel the need to post it live and try to glorify yourself instead of going directly to the police. Now that i have been falsely accused i have had to hire an attorney and spend a lot of money that i will never get back just to get my name off their website, which is run by people with a significant criminal history.
Hey Leif, currently facing the same situation as you. Any information on a good attorney and what ball park of money im looking at losing here would be appreciated.
I’ve talked to a few attorneys already but the expense seems outrageous to get something fixed when the evidence clearly shows I’m innocent.
Jay
Same Conundrum! I Hate to Say This, But, Most Attorneys That Focus on this Type of Law are Very Few! Most Attorneys Do Not Want to be Associated with this Type of Law….They are mostly married to Significant others, Have Families and Live and Thrive in Their Communities…so to Be Known to ‘DEFEND’ one of US, is, Well, a Major Concern, Etc!
Those That I have spoken to, in the past, YES, WANT STUPID MONIES UP FRONT…..And, I am Not So Sure, Any Of Them Really Know The Statutory Laws Etc….As Applied in Our Settings!
This is Just Another Hurdle, That Really Really Hurts US ALL!
So, Therefore, any Reasonable Person, Can Certainly Ascertain, That, We, Registered Citizens, Really are Disenfranchised!
Happy New Year To All!
Some these so called catchers are committing crimes themselves like doxing using an electronic device to post the victim’s confidential information(phone number or their addresses…)without their consent which is illegal.
Cyberbullying will burn your trust with others, especially if co workers are supposed to shair phone numbers with each other, who wants work with these sociopaths if you can’t trust them with your phone number when they are recklessly throwing wild accusations at people that disagree with them, I know none of you will, you guys know what you people are doing is illegal.
If I can’t meet someone in person, then I don’t meet them. Too many tales of horrors on the internet.
Go meet an adult or get treatment for your sick fantasies.
Don’t go on ADULT dating sites and then
half ass “claim” to be a minor, and then once you’ve been turned down, keep pursuing your “bait” and send photos of an obvious adult as a lure…talk about sick fantasies.
That’s not what’s happening, Predator Poachers have instagram pages that clearly show 8 years old, they use photos of what looks like an 8 year old girl. Looks like you fell for “bait” once or twice, ah. defend your own I guess, right?
You’re confused. No one on here has accessed Predator Poachers IG page.
You don’t really know what this forum is about, do you?
You’re obviously mad at SOMEONE. Deep down, I suspect that someone is yourself.
But keep telling yourself you’re above the “pedos,” if it makes you feel better.
Are you admitting to posting pictures of 8-year-old girls on Instagram?
What do you think that suggests about you?
Lmao…wrong answer..just observations from a reasonable person who knows that “stranger danger” and other such catch phrases is nothing more than a way to scare the ignorant. I’ve seen the crap “stings” on Facebook and other media sites. Nothing more than bait and switch tactics to get likes, and to take the focus away from those who do prey on minors, the 95 percent of people the victim actually knows, not someone on an ADULT dating site looking for another ADULT.
This isn’t even close to true I have seen dozens of videos where they clearly state that they are underage in the text they say it multiple times and even ask if the person is okay with it and they show video graphic evidence of the text conversation I’ve seen multiple videos where actual police from the actual police department arrest these people and who in the hell would pretend to be a pedophile online who would voluntarily go on YouTube or Facebook or any of these other social media sites and put their face out there saying yep I’m the pedophile from the video you would only put yourself an incredible danger
You just admitted watching multiple videos of underage subjects.
May I suggest you consult with a lawyer, rather than post that here.
You said in your comment “actual police”. There’s a whole different mind frame, motive, protocol, and set of standards the police have to follow in order to get a conviction. Thus, is why a online sting would mention the person online posing to be underage has to state they are underage several times so that there is no mistake that they are underage. Without it, the prosecutor has no case. Same with any type of sting/investigation. Drugs, dealing in stolen property, prostitution etc. There has to be solid evidence that the perpetrators cannot back out of or leave anything beyond a reasonable doubt with a jury.
Vigilantes on the other hand do not have this set of standards to follow. They have their own set of standards and motives. This is why we pay taxes for people to uphold the law and go to law school to prosecute and/or defend the law. Not take the law into our own hands “Vigilantism”. I just felt like pointing this out. Other wise the world we live would be in complete chaos. With this statement by no means am I defending a pedophiles. I am defending why laws are put in place. Just wanted to put that in here for the closed minded person.
Tim P. – out
No you get treatment for yours first.
What they need is to be behind bars they need to be banned from the woodlands mall and the woodlands someone should do something and call the cops
Was this article written by a Pedophile lol
I’m sure it was
I’ve always had my suspicions about this whole thing. How is it that so many predators are using ADULT sites specifically to look for underage kids to hook up with? I’ve always wondered if some bait and switch underhandedness was going on. Now, of course, I’ve also wondered that if their catches were really innocent and thought that they were going to meet an adult, why didn’t they pull their phones out and say “hey!! Wait a minute….I was under the impression that I was talking to an adult the entire time….so let’s sit down and review the chat logs together and you show me where I was told that whoever I was talking to was in fact a minor”. So…really and truly….who knows what the real story is.
Only a Pedophile would want to put a stop to this. How about commend putting a stop to predators?
Obvious Predator Author.
Do you want to protect children, or do you want to keep playing make-believe?
You are all insane. They never message first. The predators are told they are talking to a minor even if the profile says 25. Many young minors use adult sites for dating. Posting the terms of service lol what the hell you think 12 year old very hormonally frustrated girl or boy is going to care about the TOS? Police do not do enough to catch child predators. There are tens of thousands of confirmed predators caught by these brave people. You are a virus who would sleep soundly if thousands of these kids were to find a way to a man who will close and lock the door behind him, and that kid will never see the sky again. You are evil. Please let’s hear your excuses why exposing child predators is a bad thing. Then explain to me who will catch them? Because they are not being caught.
You don’t even know of a single case—not ONE— in which a minor met an adult stranger for sex using an adult dating site.
You live in your own fantasy world and are a fake-ass “predator catcher” as you have accomplished no such thing.
Meanwhile people like you remain silent allegations of actual abuse go in uninvestigated and rape kits sit on the shelf.
At best, like you give the community a false sense of security, help them get their guard down while actual sexual abuse continues to happen.
Your entire premise is flat out wrong. Actual child predators would not be on adult sites on the off chance of running into minors there any more than they would in a bar. Absent proof to the contrary – and your presumptions and opinions are not proof – your targets are only guilty of poor judgment influenced by you.
Try running your stings from child forums; there might actually be something to that. Otherwise, you’re nothing but self-righteous publicity whores.
You clearly have not idea about social media. these children DO get on adult sites and forums. my family had to discover that my 13 yr old cousin was selling nudes on instagram and skout. if you think kids see a “are you 18?” and stop, you’re either naïve or willfully ignorant.
I am so sorry that these vigilante groups proved incapable of protecting your cousin from that awful situation.
Dutch teen ‘pedophile hunters’ convicted in fatal beating
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dutch-teen-pedophile-hunters-convicted-131148810.html
“THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — A Dutch court convicted five teens Tuesday for their involvement in the fatal beating of a 73-year-old man in what they described as a “pedophile hunt.””
“The youths, whose identities were not released, were given sentences ranging from six months to a year in juvenile detention. Their ages ranged from 15 to 19 years.”
This article is BULL!! All the major groups follow all the same rules police do when they perform a sting. They never message first. They always inform them of their true age (under 16), and they never start a sequel conversation. They never suggest meeting, they let the predator do that. As for the offenders not having legal repercussions… it depends on the county. Some of the groups have DA’s and detectives that actually prosecute these cases, and DO have these guys arrested. Other groups have police departments in their area that absolutely just won’t arrest for it. Alot of it depends on the laws in that county. And MOST of these groups, by far, either break even, or lose money and fund it themselves. Nobodys getting rich off those views. Get ur facts straight.
You are absolutely right. A lot of times, the predators will claim that they were entrapped. They clearly don’t have any idea what entrapment is. Entrapment would be if they were minding their own business and someone reached out to them at random, posing as a minor and enticed them into meeting up. The predator catchers do not reach out first, as doing so would greatly muddy up the waters. All the predator catchers have to do is sit back and wait and these lowlifes will come to them. Of course, a lot of the predators claim that they honestly thought that they were meeting up with another consenting adult. But, if that were really the case, they would pull out their phones and say “hey, let’s have seat and look through this together and clear this up right now”. Which of course, they never do LOL
Typical of those who’ve been in charge. IF the police don’t do what they SHOULD be doing….you get vigilante groups..which you then ATTACK. How about y’all persue the real criminals and leave common folk trying 5o help ALONE. Just like 2hat we are seeing on a large scale in our Presidential race….happens at local levels too.
MOST police are just as corrupt as high level politics we see playing out now.
They go after and attack the PEOPLE ….NOT criminals. They are not there to help us, they are there to enforce Corporate policies…(which many of …ARE NOT LAWS)
Stop attacking people when they begin to fight back.
It’s kinda clear what team they are on NO?
Those that claim to be helping law enforcement are still vigilantes. They aren’t preventing crimes. I’m not a big fan of law enforcement,
but I’m unsure as to what corporate policies that law enforcement defends.