Member Submission: When Probation imposes their own rules.
XXXXX is a registered citizen and was told by his probation officer that if he wanted to own a business in his name, that his probation office would notify all of his clients that he was on the registry, and that XXXXX would be required to provide a weekly itinerary to probation.
Knowing that this wasn’t in his probation orders, XXXXX filed a motion to clarify with the 6th Circuit Court, Citrus County, and had a hearing in December.
At the hearing, the Judge ordered probation to have no contact with XXXXX’s clients, and XXXXX now has a business in his own name.
Furthermore, a friend of XXXXX’s, who is also a business owner, and a registered citizen, was told by the same probation office that probation would also notify all of his clients of his registration status. XXXXX’s friend filed a motion to modify probation in Pasco County last week and the Judge agreed that probation was not allowed to contact clients.
XXXXX just wanted to get this information out there, as probation officers across the state are likely telling registered citizens across the state of this incorrect information, and thus, limiting their ability to own businesses.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and for fighting for those who can’t.
I’ve owned businesses for 20 years, was placed on registry in Texas in 2010 and quickly learned there are ways to own a business and mask the ownership of the business in a number of ways. If someone needs help, reach out to me.
Dale
713-682-2500 ext 101 or my cell is 832-404-2828.
The probation will try to do anything to manipulate the rules to impose hurt and insecurities on probationers finances just to cause hardship and undue stress.
One of the problems in Florida is that many small businesses absolutely require a social media presence and that is denied to anyone on the registry, at least the social media that actually appears to workWhich is another way of saying the platforms owned by Facebook
My original PO in Tampa Jim Alexander was that kind a guy. He would just make up crazy stuff as he went along and after a while pretty much everyone knew he was doing it. I had to go to court on a couple of occasions and the judge sided with me, but it cost me time and money and, in one case, not being able to visit my children in Texas for months even though it was in my orders.
Good for them! Here’s my take on probation; It’s a waste of tax payer money to pay some schmucks to dictate your life for ANY duration of time.
If the law you break can get you 5 yrs in prison but the prosecutor makes a deal with you to only give you 2 yrs, then let it be the 2 yrs and be done with it. There is no rational need for any length of probation to follow the 2 yrs of incarceration. All that is is an attempt to HOPE you somehow screw up on a technical violation (not an actual LAW breaking crime) so that you can be “trafficked” in and out of the prison system.
This country should do away with probation entirely. We will ALWAYS have the criminal record so why the need to be “supervised”?
And as for lifetime probation, there is no need for that either. If someone commits a crime that is so heinous that they deserve a life of probation, then perhaps that’s a crime that should just require life in prison. Yes? No? Thought?
I see it like this – On probation you may have restrictions that you will no longer have when off probation. So then what damn difference does it make to even put probation restrictions on a person to begin with? It should simply be “Dont commit another crime”. But while on probation, you’re not allowed to have an alcoholic beverage. Once you complete probation, you can drink all you want.
When I was on probation, I got a technical violation for WORKING in a restaurant that had a bar. I kind of beat the violation, kind of didn’t. I didn’t do jail time for it but it IS on my record as a violation of probation. I moved to a different county afterwards and that new county’s probation dept didn’t have a problem with me working in a restaurant that has a bar. In fact, that restaurant was literally a block‘s walk away from that probation department and the probation officers used to go in there for lunch and SAW me working.
One probation dept had an issue with something another dept didn’t. Probation is POINTLESS and USELESS. Nothing can convince me otherwise.
(Parole is an entirely different issue and is a privilege. But probation should not even exist.)
When I was first put on probation in 1991, my PO took pleasure in showing up at my house at 6 am to rifle through my cabinets. I didn’t know any better, being green and all, that a probation officer is basically just a glorified security guard who doesn’t even have the power to arrest you. After about six months, I met a woman in college and I was going to move in with her at the far south end of the county, about 50 miles away. He told me if I went to her house, he would violate me. I went to his supervisor and told him all of this. My PO was no longer my PO. Didn’t make friends with the other POs though. I moved across the state and had a new PO that tried desperately to nail me for anything, even trying to say I was on drugs, among other things. An old PO from the old county transferred to where I moved and those two had lots of conversations about me. My PO told me he was going to violate me for drama someone else cooked up. I told him since he couldn’t arrest me, he’d better have the sheriff waiting at the door before I leave or they’d never see me again. I left the state for 2 years. 2 years of freedom was fantastic. Came back, did 8 months county, 1 year CC, and the remainder of my 15 year sentence. Been off probation 12 years. Working on clemency. Been waiting 2 years. I’ll let you know how that goes, but I don’t have high hopes. $10,000 is a lot to shell out for something that depends on whim and politics rather than facts and evidence.
You were on probation for a sexual offense back in 1991? I’m curious to know what the standard probation rules were back then before Megan’s Law. If you don’t mind sharing.
Yes, I heard , in person, a P/O tell a client that he must tell all his potential clients of his status, and that it would be better to work for someone else even if he did 99% of the work so as not to have to disclose his status nor would she then (the P/O) have to ‘write him up’.
Also, a different P/O said that if one goes into a home or if someone comes into the residents home to do some work, or even work on the yard, all have to be told of their label.
This actually happened to my husband and I when we wanted to visit a friend, who already knew of my husbands’ status, but the Sherriff came and went through the home to be sure no children lived there before the P/O gave us permission to visit (same FL county).
I am so proud of XXXXX, for having the courage to challenge this injustice and I am even more grateful to the courts for using their legal oversight to do the right thing.
Probation officers are the scum of the earth. News such as this are not a surprise to anyone who has had to bend over for one of these unstable individuals.
They are typically poorly educated individuals with lower than average intelligence. They also have low self-esteem due to those factors and attempt to raise it by abusing those unfortunate enough to be put under their oppressive control.
I don’t think that is a fair statement to apply to all probation officers. I had two that were helpful and understanding for the most part. We (rightfully ) argue that all sex offenders are not the same. It seems hypocritical to say all probation officers are terrible, all police are terrible, all politicians are terrible, or to make a blanket judgement about any group.
Agreed! Thanks for that reminder.
To BH and FAC,
The probation officer isn’t even the “last word” regarding violations. Their SUPERVISOR is. And the supervisors are ALWAYS assholes. Period.
My probation officer who violated me for working in a restaurant with a bar told me that she’s putting an ankle monitor on me so that I quit the job and never step foot in there again and she wouldn’t have to violate me.
2 weeks after she put the ankle monitor on me, she violated me. That was an obvious order to her from her supervisor.
The Supervisor is not the last word either. The Judge is.
FAC, the probation supervisor makes the final decision to violate. Being violated means getting arrested and being inconvenienced from your job and housing (imagine being put in lock up until a court date when your rent is due).
The supervisor has the final say in inconveniencing the life you’re trying to re-establish.
I’ll agree to this.
I agree also…My Federal PO has always been relatively fair. Has supported me through treatment and has never threatened me will jail. A good PO can act as a buffer between you and the community/Sherriffs registry. Matter of fact I would rather deal with my PO than the Sheriffs office any day . I do understand that the quality of POs can vary by location City , county,state or Federal…Believe me, I know…I was one (PO)for 10 years..
Federal PO’s tent to be pragmatic and apply common sense. The LAST thing they want is for an offender they supervise to get themselves re-arrested.
I also think this is an unfair statement, I had the same PO for 3 years, he was firm , but fair, I followed the courts guidelines, reported as required, etc. Never gave me a hard time, but also, made it clear if I messed up, he would have no problem violating me. ran into him a couple of years after released for paper, and has turned out to be one of the best friends i have ever had. we spend a lot of time together, he is one of the few people in my life that doesn’t judge me and is very proud to introduce me to his friends and work colleges as his friend. you can not judge all PO’s by a few, I’m surprised that anyone here would just jump to conclusions based on a job or title … isnt that what we are here for? to help each other and to educate the general public that jumping to conclusions based on a title that we are bad people ?
Not true at all. I had a bad one, but I also had a very good po. He was fair but from day one let me know he would violate meet if he had to.
Generalizing them all, is there same as the general public saying we are all monster who should all be killed because we will reoffend and never change.
Can’t demand respect and not give it
Agreed, MR SO TRUTH!…We could write novels on this and so Much More…!….
…Perhaps ‘They’ are Lower Than Whale Poop on the Bottom of the Sea!….
Anyways…I, too, am an independent contractor-1099er….I, too, was oppressed by a Female (Male Hate Monger) ‘Probation Officer’ and was also subjected to RUTHLESS harassment which included the loss of 2 Major ACCOUNTS because of her contacting them… .I thank the Person(s) above….This should assist in my Civil Suit against the BEEEECH…I will get her financially and donate all proceeds to Justice Based Causes for all of US!
REMINDER TO ALL ON PROBATION…ONLY THE JUDGE SETS THE PROBATION GUIDELINES AND ANY SPECIAL PROVISIONS AND MUST BE ORALLY COMMUNICATED AT TIME OF SENTENCING AND IT MUST BE IN THE WRITTEN RECORD..ONLY THE STATE LEGISLATURE CAN ISSUE NEW STATUTES OR CHANGES TO CURRENT STATUTORY LANGUAGE….THE PROBATION OFFICER CANNOT ENHANCE, EMBELLISH OR REQUIRE ANY NEW SCHEME, REQUIREMENT OR ‘LAW IN THEIR MIND’ AND ENFORCE IT UPON THE PROBATIONER….FACT! MOST DO AND GET AWAY WITH IT THRU THREATS AND OTHER ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR TO THE PROBATIONER!
KNOW YOUR RIGHTS…….BE KIND, TRUTHFUL, POLITE AND ASK FOR WRITTEN CLARIFICATION WHEN IN DOUBT WITH YOUR PROBATION OFFICER….
JUST DEAL WITH THESE IDIOTS AND PLAY THEIR GAME…CAUSE THEY CANT PLAY YOURS! IT IS A CHESS MATCH..PLAY WISELY…
REMEMBER, THERE IS PLENTY OF BED SPACE AT THE ‘INN OF THE FLADOC’ AND THEY ARE READY AND WILLING TO FILL IT….
THE TWO THINGS THAT ARE NOT SHUT DOWN ARE: PRISONS AND CASINOS…THINK ABOUT IT!..The Monies Keep Trickling in!
Sex Offender Truth….
In the State of Floria-DUH, ‘Probation Officers’ are Bureaucrats…They get a Bi-Weekly Paycheck in an Air-conditioned Office..They Get Full Benefits like Health Insurance etc…They are Quasi-Vested…Therefore, they just push an ink pen, push buttons on a computer etc…They become haters and squatters-They Simply Justify their existence by illegal technical violation of Probationers to NO AVAIL-they have monthly meetings to ‘weed out the less fortunate’
(REGISTRANTS)…….However, in smaller State Jurisdictions, Probation etc is contracted out to Correction-Like Consulting Companies, wherein, the Probation Officers are HUMANS-have a Heart and are God Fearing Peoples….
BTW…what happened to your website?…it is no longer?
Went thru same problem judge told probation to follow my probation orders and do not vary from them without court order
I know that Flagler and Brevard probation offices also follow the same policy.
Thank you and them! I have been considering a business of my own because I cant get a job anywhere else due to the registry. This type of fighting helps all of us. Thank you all!
How can I get the case number?
Awesome post! Keep up the great work! 🙂
This is nit uncommon. My son is on probation and his officer constantly adds her own input and alters the conditions of his probation without any legal authority to do so. An example is my sons time out of the house. According to his probation papers he is required to be home from 10pm to 6 am, otherwise he is free to be out and about all day long if he so chooses. Also he is on GPS monitoring. However, his PO constantly complains he is driving too much or he’s out to much. Constantly telling him he should stay home. We’ve spoken to his attorney who assures us that he is free to be out all day long if he wants , but she continues to harass him about this. It seems that probation likes to just make stuff up as they go along.
‘Concerned Mom’
When on Probation, it is Best to ‘Show all True Colors’, like one is in Combat for their country…
If ‘He’ is constantly out, away from the home, We hope he is fully, gainfully, and lawfully employed!..If this is the case, there is NO worry…Just Make sure he has documentation of the aforementioned!
Make it a Great Day!
It’s always a good idea to educate yourself in what law enforcement, in all of its forms, can and cannot do to you.
This is a prime example.
Unfortunate that they had to go to the courts in this but well done none the less.
Pasco county is notorious for dreaming up there own set of rules !
been there done that… Hillsborough and Pinenellas as well
now that XXXXX has won his case he will be on a list to arrest for anything, the next thing that will come down is underage clientele in his establishment and a reason for his arrest yea all dreamed up by PCSO…
Probation officers dont want to look like a fool in front of there clients. and XXXX challenged his authority and won
Not always the case. The problem is people are scared like yourself, me too, but you people sign these deals and techs and dig your grave. A good trial attorney will trash any PO I’ve seen that’s doing this crap but you gotta have the balls.
Well, the other problem is the number of attorneys out there who are just as scared to “go against the grain” and truly fight for anyone.
Not totally surprising – POs frequently make up their own rules as they go. Standing up to them or calling their bluffs is almost always the best thing to do.
Regardless of which way your political flag blows and whether you use the terms “the establishment” or “the deep state”, this is a growing problem in the US; employees across all levels and branches of government believe they have the power and authority to legislate laws and regulations. The problem is, when they do it in our favor, we stand aside and applaud. When its not, we are strongly against it.
And when have they ever done it in our favor???????????
When I was on probation from 1999 to 2008, I had well over a dozen probation officers over that span of time, several of whom loved to make up their own conditions. In 2007, a probation officer “ordered” me to sign an additional page of standard conditions of sex offender probation that did not exist at the time I committed my office (August 1997) or was sentenced (April 1999). I told her that she was putting me in an impossible position: either disobey her order to sign the document or otherwise sign away my constitutional rights. I asked her if she thought ordering me to sign the page was the right thing to do and she said no, and we never talked about it again.
I had to go to court about half a dozen times to seek “clarification” while I was on probation in order to get the rogue probation officers to stop imposing their own conditions or trying to impose conditions that didn’t exist at the time of my offense.
I will add that all of my problems existed while I was on probation in Broward County. Once I moved to Miami-Dade County, which my attorney recommended, most of the problems stopped.
Also, for about 3 years my probation officer was the one who was arrested for raping one of his “clients” a few years ago in Coconut Creek (a Jamaican woman he was supervising; this should be enough info for you to Google it and get the details). He violated me twice on bogus allegations (the only times I was violated during my 10 years on sex offender probation), the second of which resulted in an apology from the judge, who by the way was the same Broward County Circuit Court Judge who was removed from the bench and eventually disbarred for having an improper relationship with the prosecuting attorney in a death penalty case.
Yes, that’s right. My probation officer (Z.B.) was the one who was accused of raping his clients, and my judge (A.I.G.) was the one who was removed for having a clandestine affair with a prosecutor while trying a death penalty case and eventually got disbarred for it after lying about it while under oath. I’m sure many of you reading this already know exactly who I’m taking about, but you can find out who she is by Googling the details. That’s how corrupt the system is.
Your probation orders are a court order agreed upon by you .state att. And the judge. Your probation officer is nothing more than a reporter to the court if you do not follow your probation orders they can not add or subtract from your orders .next time you go to court because they tried to make you do something that’s not in your orders ask the judge if he could instruct the d.c. to follow your probation orders and due not vary from them without a court order .it works I know because that’s what I did the order was issued and I finished my probation with no harrassment do not be afraid to go to court
Is this a FL only legal principle, or something that is applicable in other jurisdictions?
Exactly dude judges follow the law y’all don’t puss up to these nazi POS. They will be reprimanded pulling this shit so alway take it to a hearing, always plea not guilty when your in the right. Spread the word and stay the f outta trouble and it make us all look bad with new legit charges.
If this is the probation officer you’re referring to, I find it rather odd that the charges didn’t stick. The prosecutor dropped the charges. Hold on…. even if a person consents, it is still ILLEGAL to have sexual encounters with someone you have AUTHORITY over. That’s why prison guards cannot have sexual relationships with inmates. Even a college professor cannot have sexual relationships with adult students. You’re in a position of power over that person. This P.O. committed a sexual offense. He should be registered like anyone else would be. Florida is truly Floriduh. Wow!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-ne-probation-officer-rape-case-settles-20190104-story.html%3foutputType=amp
I think I am one of the few who follow this blog who is both currently on probation as well as having internet privileges. I have run across the “tell your clients” thing as well. Several times. First, was when I was working a cleaning business. Cleaned commercial buildings after hours. No problem. But then my boss wanted me to help with some residential properties–even though no one would be home at that time. My P.O. said “sure”. Just give her a list of the houses I cleaned and she would call them up to verify that a registrant was in their house and did they mind? Needless to say, my boss decided against that. Then, a few weeks later, I was told by that same p.o. that if I started a lawn care business, pool business, tree trimming, or other type of business that typically caters to residential home owners, that I would have to provide a list of client’s so she can “let them know”. That nixed that plan as well. However, later, when I switched p.o.’s (due to a move in my residence), the new p.o. didn’t seem to have a problem. So, same office, same county, different result. On the other hand, am not allowed to go to the shopping mall. EXCEPT, if the store happens to have an outside entrance. In other words, I can visit an anchor, but can’t walk down the concourse. UGH!
I have found out that the key is to know more about the probation rules than the probation officers do. Especially the difficult ones.
Congrats to XXXXX on his victory.
But if you had an armed robbery conviction, you’re more than welcome to enter residencies. Excellent! SMH
And go to the mall!
It sounds like you really know what you’re talking about as do the other commenters on this post. This was my first search into this subject as I own a small cleaning business and I am in a position where probation may be something I am facing. I have still not gone through mitigation yet. I have long time clients. I have not been trying to increase my business beyond what I am physically able to handle. I do house cleaning and vacation rental cleaning. Where can I go to find comprehensive information on this subject. This forum is very helpful and I’m going to save it. I would also love it if there’s anybody on here who is interested in having a discussion for me. I would like to be prepared before I get to this stage of probation. I want to go prepared with knowledge. By the way I have been accused of something that was taken out of context and then twisted by the police and used against me. Even the supposed victim swore up and down that he was not a victim. The whole thing is ridiculous. It all comes down to make sure you’re never angry while you’re trying to help someone. It’s unbelievable that the police can twist something, the media can lie about it, and somebody who’s only ever been an excellent and upstanding citizen can be in this position due to one episode that lasted less than 6 seconds. Anyway would appreciate any and all help and guidance I could get from those who have been through this probation situation
I hate to repeat myself but this is all about money. the registered people in this story had to hire a lawyer and i am sure pay some kind of court costs etc… What probation is hoping is that the registered individual does not have any money and that he or she can get away with imposing their will on whomever cannot defend themselves. this has been going on for years and there is no one to stop it. if the officers in question had to pay for the court costs and attorney’s if they lost i am sure you would see far fewer trying to get away with what they did.
“Quasi-lesbian,” “carpet munchers”?
People on this forum have a variety of sexual orientations. Can we not attack people for that, please?
I happen to know more than one female probation officer. I’m not privy to to their sexual orientation, but I do know a number of gay women as well. Not one of them, that I can recall, exhibit signs of hating men as you suggest.
Maybe it’s just you that these people hate.
Thanks for posting that, Jacob. The post you replied to was removed.
Awesome post! Keep up the great work! 🙂
My court rules of probation mentioned NOTHING about Halloween. I didn’t listen to p.o. about her Halloween rules and I went about my normal day. She sent me to the judge for a scolding. But the judge never mentioned why I was there. No mention of Halloween day of “house arrest” Lol He just gave me a very gentle & general “follow your rules of probation or else” speech. This was NY & I just paid no mind to those added rules, ever, & took my chances.
Think of the Holocaust and what was said “NEVER AGAIN” people we all need to stand together or be divided now is the time to put an end to all this BULLSHIT stand up for your rights and put an end to this bureaucratic bull that is handed to you just remember united we stand divided we fall I for one have had enough don’t ever let somebody tell you that you have no rights you have just as much rights as any one else in this God forsaken Country Take a stand “NEVER AGAIN”
Id like to see a probation officer step out of absolute immunity and contact clients against policy of one of my legal corporations and loose business, they would be sued and personally sued. Not only would you be set at an economical loss so would your employees and a partner if you had one. The judge in this case made the right decision. It is a no brainer!
JLL,
……Only Judges have ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY…Law Enforcement Officials that took an oath of office have what is known as, QUALIFIED IMMUNITY…In order to sue a Law Enforcement Official in Civil Court, you need to ‘find’ a judge that will remove the Qualified Immunity from that Law Enforcement Official, such as a Probation Officer in this case…that is like finding a ‘Needle in a Haystack’…it has been done BUT is very cumbersome!
Does anyone know if this has been ruled on in the 10th circuit yet I need the case ASAP.
Can someone please share some case law on this we can use on motions and grievances. Is this ex post facto double jeopardy delegation or what. Thanks
Happy Monday To All…
Remember, A Probation Officer is Compensated by the State or Jurisdiction in which they reside….They Do Not produce Revenue…They take tax payer dollars away from everyone else…they are bureaucrats that sit in laps of luxury…they do NOT contribute to the GNP…there are like SOWS…which are usually used to make Sausage..HA!
Does anyone know an attorney that can help with this problem in Polk county? So far here it’s make your own rules and steal liberties!
If you have an issue with probation in your criminal case, the attorney who represented you.
If you need a private attorney referral for post conviction relief, reach out to legal@floridaactioncommittee.org for a referral or check the listings on our site (https://floridaactioncommittee.org/attorneys/criminal-attorneys/)
There is one attorney in Bartow, Mr. Ron Toward who might take a case.
Also Ms. Brenda Ramirez of the Kaylor Law Group.
Right now because of the virus I am not sure if they are in their offices.
Have you contact James ” Rusty ” Franklin ?
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